Are window operators (Cranks) interchangeable for the most part?

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Jul 19th, 2021 9:52 am

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Jul 15th, 2021 2:52 pm

GoodFellaz [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Jun 24, 2015; 7909 posts; 2655 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 15th, 2021 2:52 pm

Are window operators (Cranks) interchangeable for the most part?

I have a few window operators that are broken. They were likely broken from the previous owners. you turn the crank and you can hear its not catching inside. Those things are sealed units I tried to open one to see if I can fix it but they appear to be sealed by a Rivet or machine press of some sort.

(mine look similar to this pic below)

From what I've been reading it looks like the Gears inside are stripped or the teeth are worn out and the housing looks to be a bit warped so maybe its out of alignment.

After contacting several companies They don't sell this exact unit anymore, however I have found one or two which are the Exact Same Size but made by other companies.

They appear to be slightly different. Slightly different mounting holes which is cool I don't mind drilling new holes. The one I have has one arm, I was wondering if I can use one with 2 arms like in the photo. They appear to be the same size but maybe the extra arm would help with making it easier to open/close the window? any window experts on here? maybe a window expert can chime in and give me an explanation?

just to add, some of the cranks in my home have one arm some have two, so to me it seems like it may not matter but I may have to add a piece of hard ware to get it to mount right?

I don't want to cheap out just want this to work properly

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

19 replies

Jul 15th, 2021 4:29 pm

GoodFellaz [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Jun 24, 2015; 7909 posts; 2655 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 15th, 2021 4:29 pm

Just an update. one of them is 13.5" when I replace it, does the new one have to be the EXACT same dimension, I found one that is 11-3/4" and cheaper.

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

Jul 15th, 2021 7:45 pm

Jerico: Deal Guru; Jan 25, 2007; 12418 posts; 7592 upvotes; Paris

Jul 15th, 2021 7:45 pm

You cant use a 2 arm on a one arm window, where and how would you attach it?

yes they need to be the same length or they will either not attach, or if it does attach the window wont open fully or close properly.

Jul 15th, 2021 7:51 pm

JHW: Deal Addict; Nov 24, 2004; 4602 posts; 1184 upvotes; Toronto

Jul 15th, 2021 7:51 pm

I've gone through the process of replacing a casement window operator before. It's much easier if you can find a match to the exact crank you have, and just buy a replacement. I wouldn't consider them "interchangeable" without a lot of work in widening (or sealing) the opening, making or improvising adaptors for the crank end to your window, etc.

I ended up sending pictures of the window operator to a bunch of different companies and eventually (it took a while) found a place that sold that particular brand, and ship replacement parts to me.

Do you have any way of contacting the previous owner to find out what brand the operators are? Or at least the name of the company that installed the windows?

Jul 15th, 2021 8:23 pm

slowtyper: Deal Guru; Sep 2, 2008; 12451 posts; 2207 upvotes

Jul 15th, 2021 8:23 pm

This looks almost exactly like the ones I just replaced. StIck your head out the window and look under the arms. Is there a number stamped there? I'm pretty confident there will be a 5 digit number stamped under the long arm.

I ordered the replacement parts from Ontario glazing supplies and installed them myself easily. Post with the number you find and I'll give you a little more info if they are the same.

I bet they are truth operators.

The new version is slightly different from what you have (handle), however the operator part that connects to your window is "plug and play".

+1

Jul 16th, 2021 12:59 am

GoodFellaz [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Jun 24, 2015; 7909 posts; 2655 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 16th, 2021 12:59 am

Jerico wrote: ↑ You cant use a 2 arm on a one arm window, where and how would you attach it?

yes they need to be the same length or they will either not attach, or if it does attach the window wont open fully or close properly.

why not? i have one window in my kitchen it uses a one arm crank, i have the exact same size window in my dining room and the crank has 2 arms, one of the arm folds in half, its connected with a stud bracket, why wouldn't i be able to install it just the same? if the window people did it why cant i?

it feels more solid opening the window with the crank that has 2 arms than the origional one with one arm, so why not? extra seems better, no?

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

Jul 16th, 2021 10:54 am

Jerico: Deal Guru; Jan 25, 2007; 12418 posts; 7592 upvotes; Paris

Jul 16th, 2021 10:54 am

GoodFellaz wrote: ↑ why not? i have one window in my kitchen it uses a one arm crank, i have the exact same size window in my dining room and the crank has 2 arms, one of the arm folds in half, its connected with a stud bracket, why wouldn't i be able to install it just the same? if the window people did it why cant i?

it feels more solid opening the window with the crank that has 2 arms than the origional one with one arm, so why not? extra seems better, no?

What are you attaching the second arm too?

Jul 16th, 2021 12:31 pm

slowtyper: Deal Guru; Sep 2, 2008; 12451 posts; 2207 upvotes

Jul 16th, 2021 12:31 pm

GoodFellaz wrote: ↑ why not? i have one window in my kitchen it uses a one arm crank, i have the exact same size window in my dining room and the crank has 2 arms, one of the arm folds in half, its connected with a stud bracket, why wouldn't i be able to install it just the same? if the window people did it why cant i?

it feels more solid opening the window with the crank that has 2 arms than the origional one with one arm, so why not? extra seems better, no?

Just get the matching ones and save yourself some headache.

Jul 16th, 2021 12:59 pm

GoodFellaz [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Jun 24, 2015; 7909 posts; 2655 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 16th, 2021 12:59 pm

thats the reason why my cranks are broken in the first place, they probably werent sufficient, i want to put beefier ones but i dont tihnk many people here are knowledgable in this area and are just giving their two cents but i appreciate it

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

Jul 16th, 2021 3:52 pm

JHW: Deal Addict; Nov 24, 2004; 4602 posts; 1184 upvotes; Toronto

Jul 16th, 2021 3:52 pm

GoodFellaz wrote: ↑ thats the reason why my cranks are broken in the first place, they probably werent sufficient,

Or the attachment clips on the window frames got seized up, which put strain on the cranks and gears when operating them, and / or bent the attachment clips themselves. This can be fixed with new clips / cranks / perhaps some lubrication.

i want to put beefier ones but i dont tihnk many people here are knowledgable in this area and are just giving their two cents but i appreciate it

The problem with your approach is that you assume that different types of cranks or operators are interchangeable. From everything I read when I had the very same issue with my own windows, they are (perhaps with rare exceptions) not interchangeable. Technically you could make it work, but you'll end up having to drill holes in your window frame and make your own adapters and possibly gears.

Look around to try to find out more about the manufacturer of the equipment you do have. This may mean removing the operator hardware from the window frame to see if there are any manufacturer labels on it. (The one in your OP is for the window itself.) Then buy an exact replacement part. It will be far less work, and far more reliable, than trying to kludge together your own custom replacement parts.

Jul 16th, 2021 5:36 pm

slowtyper: Deal Guru; Sep 2, 2008; 12451 posts; 2207 upvotes

Jul 16th, 2021 5:36 pm

GoodFellaz wrote: ↑ thats the reason why my cranks are broken in the first place, they probably werent sufficient, i want to put beefier ones but i dont tihnk many people here are knowledgable in this area and are just giving their two cents but i appreciate it

Are you in GTA? Just assuming since I don't now. But if you are, I suggest you take out both your operators and bring them to the specialist and he will tell you exactly what you can or cannot do. I highly recommend ontario glazing supplies, the guy I spoke to I think is the owner but was very knowledgable and helpful. They have a wall of all different operators in the store, you can take a look and see how they all work and what matches. Even if you're not from ontario, check out the website you can find the exact model you need and maybe you can see if its possible to interchange them.

My cranks were all broken too when I moved in, they were exactly the same as your picture.

If you want to change the crank you may need to also change the mounting brackets which are on the actual window as well.

BTW you said earlier you tried to get it and the company doesn't make it anymore. What company and model did you determine your operators were?

Jul 17th, 2021 12:22 am

Jerico: Deal Guru; Jan 25, 2007; 12418 posts; 7592 upvotes; Paris

Jul 17th, 2021 12:22 am

GoodFellaz wrote: ↑ thats the reason why my cranks are broken in the first place, they probably werent sufficient, i want to put beefier ones but i dont tihnk many people here are knowledgable in this area and are just giving their two cents but i appreciate it

I’m a window and door installer. You refuted what I said. Not sure who you are looking to reply here. The problem with your cranks is that they were most likely builder grade and manufactured to the minimum standards. It will be difficult without major surgery to put on a beefier 2 arm model from a different manufacturer that isnt builder grade, as the screw holes, mortise for the arm, and the attachment to the window itself will need to be altered significantly, with the window installed.

+3

Jul 17th, 2021 12:01 pm

fergy: Deal Fanatic; Sep 27, 2006; 5372 posts; 2223 upvotes; Not so easy there Ma…

Jul 17th, 2021 12:01 pm

Jerico wrote: ↑ I’m a window and door installer. You refuted what I said. Not sure who you are looking to reply here. The problem with your cranks is that they were most likely builder grade and manufactured to the minimum standards. It will be difficult without major surgery to put on a beefier 2 arm model from a different manufacturer that isnt builder grade, as the screw holes, mortise for the arm, and the attachment to the window itself will need to be altered significantly, with the window installed.

Do you know what the crank gear related parts are made of? Are they all steel or have some or all switched to plastic? Some of mine seem worn. The manufacturers all lubricate them I hope?

Jul 17th, 2021 11:22 pm

Jerico: Deal Guru; Jan 25, 2007; 12418 posts; 7592 upvotes; Paris

Jul 17th, 2021 11:22 pm

fergy wrote: ↑ Do you know what the crank gear related parts are made of? Are they all steel or have some or all switched to plastic? Some of mine seem worn. The manufacturers all lubricate them I hope?

I havent seen plastic, but I have seen really soft steel or those that arent aligned so are destined to strip.

+1

Jul 17th, 2021 11:37 pm

chimaican: Deal Expert; Oct 23, 2008; 17743 posts; 15840 upvotes; GTA, ON

Jul 17th, 2021 11:37 pm

I wish you luck in finding a crank gear. Hopefully those are more generic then my issue.

I have 3 windows with broken window locks. The gear teeth snapped from overuse and I haven't been able to replace them. Mine are Jeldwin (original builders garbage) and when I contacted them they told me the window is out of production and there are no spare parts. Basically they said so too bad, so sad, go buy new windows.

I called a bunch of distributors of spare parts and no one had the same size. So I ended up removing the lock crank and use a wrench to push/pull the locking mechanism.

Tis banana is IRIE 😎

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Jul 18th, 2021 1:56 am

slowtyper: Deal Guru; Sep 2, 2008; 12451 posts; 2207 upvotes

Jul 18th, 2021 1:56 am

Jerico wrote: ↑ I’m a window and door installer. You refuted what I said. Not sure who you are looking to reply here. The problem with your cranks is that they were most likely builder grade and manufactured to the minimum standards. It will be difficult without major surgery to put on a beefier 2 arm model from a different manufacturer that isnt builder grade, as the screw holes, mortise for the arm, and the attachment to the window itself will need to be altered significantly, with the window installed.

Can this be an ask the window guy thread haha? I have a double hung Window with spiral balancers where the pivot bar on one side snapped off. Can't seem to find a matching picture of the same one online anywhere.

Images

Jul 18th, 2021 9:18 am

Sarc: Sr. Member; Sep 28, 2003; 720 posts; 374 upvotes

Jul 18th, 2021 9:18 am

I've replaced the operators in my previous house. It's a lot easier than you think and replacing the entire operator is easier than trying to find a new gear.

If you can't find a replacement locally, try Amazon. I couldn't find anything local and find the exact type and size online. Don't worry about getting the same manufacturer. It only needs to be the same type and length.

Jul 18th, 2021 5:15 pm

GoodFellaz [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Jun 24, 2015; 7909 posts; 2655 upvotes; 0 downvotes

Jul 18th, 2021 5:15 pm

mine are metal but i called a few places and they all told me the ones the builders install are the very low grade ones and often break with in a few years. mine got warped and the housing bent so much the gears are out of alignment, i had to close one of the windows one day it was a huge rain storm it was a pain in the pita.!

THe reason I want more beefier ones is i dont want the cheap flimsy builder grade i want something that will last a good 10 or more years

Supermarket worker at Fortino's
I'm Not a Wise Guy but more of a Good Fella~!
Drive an Escalade

Jul 18th, 2021 11:25 pm

Jerico: Deal Guru; Jan 25, 2007; 12418 posts; 7592 upvotes; Paris

Jul 18th, 2021 11:25 pm

slowtyper wrote: ↑ Can this be an ask the window guy thread haha? I have a double hung Window with spiral balancers where the pivot bar on one side snapped off. Can't seem to find a matching picture of the same one online anywhere.

Who is the manufacturer?

Jul 19th, 2021 9:52 am

slowtyper: Deal Guru; Sep 2, 2008; 12451 posts; 2207 upvotes

Jul 19th, 2021 9:52 am

Jerico wrote: ↑ Who is the manufacturer?

The window is vinyltech but I can't find any markings on the balancer itself.

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