Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Sr. Member
Oct 5, 2005
736 posts
108 upvotes
Please have a read of letter #2 appended here.

There were numerous, kind, positive comments about letter #1 (posted on page 588 of Monsieurmaggot's fine thread).

We really need to organize an "information session" outside of a chosen dealership or Honda Canada. A chance to get together, meet, greet, see some nice purchases, educate, and draw attention to what a million threadviewers have embraced as a very serious issue.


RE-SENT 11/15/07

11/14/07


Dear Mr. Shin and Mr. Kobayashi,


I am in receipt of your second brief email sent today. Thank you. It reads in its entirety "Honda Canada has requested your phone number for them to contact you. Could you please send me the best available number to reach you at so I can forward it to them?"

As I am not readily available during business hours, my preference is to communicate via email. However, if there is a good reason as to why you, as an intermediary, have made this request, apparently on behalf of Honda Canada or your District Sales Manager (I don't know) please let me know and I will consider how I may accommodate. Please provide the name and email address for this individual.

I do have a few more thoughts to share with you, and will make efforts to be brief (but not as brief as you). I would like to ask you to re-read my last letter, because I believe there are a number of direct points to which you could have responded, if you chose. You initiated email contact with me, yet have provided no meaningful response, which makes me feel even more undervalued as a Canadian Honda Customer. The whole week has now passed.

A number of Ontario Honda Dealerships are selling American Honda cars to Canadians. That seems hypocritical to me, and possibly to other Canadians when Honda has forbidden American Dealers to sell to Canadians, and have openly threatened punishment for doing so. Could you please help me understand why Hamburg Honda, a Honda Dealership in Niagara Falls, Ontario is allowed to sell U.S. model Honda Ridgelines? Kindly have a look at the speedometer which is clearly American.

http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...4&adid=6359066

Please have a good look at the price. So much for the theory that U.S. cars have no resale value in Canada. Along with the artificial barriers imposed by Honda Canada, dealers are reciting this (poor resale value) as part of their mantra of discouragement to the increasing number of Canadians who look to $10,000 cheaper American Hondas. This was my personal experience.

Having read my two lengthy emails, you will understand why I find the following so distasteful. From your Honda.ca website "Our Philosophy":
http://www.honda.ca/HondaCorp/en/abo...&subNavIndex=1

"It begins with Respect for the Individual. This comes from a fundamental belief that the Human Being is born with the capacity to think, reason and create and that at Honda we should strive to nurture and support these unique characteristics. How? By encouraging Initiative. By treating all individuals with Equality. By building a company that fosters Trust. At Honda, we believe that every interaction we have with our customers, dealers and fellow Associates should reflect this philosophy.

"With this Respect we work together to better serve our customers with what we call The Three Joys.

"Every person who comes in contact with a Honda should feel joy as a result."

Would you as a consumer find any sincerity or plausibility in these lofty words if you were asked/forced to pay $20,000 extra for a Honda S2000 or $15,000 more for a Honda Pilot or Acura MDX (as Mr. Peter Mansbridge also concluded last night on CBC's "The National")?

How do you reconcile the Draconian barriers forcibly imposed on Canadians by Honda Canada with the bold words above? I ask these questions with the utmost respect, and because I was fortunately born with the capacity to think and reason.

I'll also have to take exception with Honda's website's page titled The Joy of Giving. http://www.honda.ca/HondaCorp/en/commun ... NavIndex=1

While there may have been Joy on the luxury cruise ship sailing the Mediterranean with Mr. Kobayashi and Honda Dealers and Principals last week, padding profits by taking an extra 10-20% from the disposable income of average Canadian families hardly brings us any Joy.

I look forward to your response to both of my emails. Thank you.

Sincerely,

XXXXX XXXXXX
Sr. Member
Nov 3, 2002
970 posts
90 upvotes
Good idea I'm in.


We really need to organize an "information session" outside of a chosen dealership or Honda Canada. A chance to get together, meet, greet, see some nice purchases, educate, and draw attention to what a million threadviewers have embraced as a very serious issue.
Deal Addict
Sep 2, 2003
1148 posts
96 upvotes
I think your emails are very insightfull and you bring many good points to them, but I have to disagree with one of the things mentioned, do you think honestly you did anything but screw the average canadian by telling honda what dealership is doing the importing and reselling? All that happens now is that and average canadian that was "afraid" of importing will not be able to purchase a car, given higher than the import price in canada from a honda dealership, as now honda will slap around that dealership for making it harder for them to state their point. Now all I see happen is today will be the same as yesterday but now those cars will be exported back to the US and the rest of us the wouldn't of imported because of many reasons can't get a deal. Do get me wrong, I would of done the same to prove my point but do you think one person with a email the size of a stephen king novel is really going to do anything? Your wasting your time and energy, import a car if you like, if you don't save your fingers the time and effort and send an email to the guys that can do something like the government...but even then don't waste your time.
Newbie
Jan 1, 2007
11 posts
superwell wrote: ... screw the average canadian by telling honda what dealership is doing the importing and reselling?
I'd guess that Honda doesn't care that much that dealers are importing used US cars. GM dealers (and I think some others) are advertising that explicitly.

Raikonnen is taking a harder line than I would. I'd let Honda call me. Hey, maybe they're offering big discounts! :)
Deal Addict
Sep 2, 2003
1148 posts
96 upvotes
110phil wrote: I'd guess that Honda doesn't care that much that dealers are importing used US cars. GM dealers (and I think some others) are advertising that explicitly.

Raikonnen is taking a harder line than I would. I'd let Honda call me. Hey, maybe they're offering big discounts! :)
true. All i sayin' is that maybe that was best left unsaid. When I can go to niagara and pick up a S2000 for $35g's rather then the $52G's they are new..I would rather have that a secret in my books or said here on the forum.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Feb 26, 2003
585 posts
39 upvotes
superwell wrote: true. All i sayin' is that maybe that was best left unsaid. When I can go to niagara and pick up a S2000 for $35g's rather then the $52G's they are new..I would rather have that a secret in my books or said here on the forum.
There is no secret here, the vehicles are advertise on the Autotrader. Honda and other new car dealers are openly selling 'used' US cars, not new ones. There are no restrictions from the manufacturers on what they can sell in their used car lot.
You can't honestly believe that Honda doesn't know this is happening???

Fords Official reply to my email re pricing:

Thank you for contacting the Ford of Canada Customer Relationship Centre. We received your message sent on 11/13/2007 regarding the pricing difference between Canada and the U.S.

Ford of Canada is constantly monitoring market activity to remain competitive. Ford will continue to respond to the marketplace in pricing its vehicles.

Ford of Canada sets its MSRPs by considering a number of factors, including the prices of its competitors
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Apr 19, 2005
9186 posts
516 upvotes
Toronto
jiciheb wrote: I imported a 2008 Subaru Legacy last friday and was told that you have to bring papers in person to the Lacolle (Qc)/Champlain (NY) border crossing...they don't accept faxes.
Thanks for sharing the info.

Do they accept courier delivery or must be submitted by car importer? Thanks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need below items in GTA:
- CT, HD, FS, BB, gas GCs

FS: Freedom Mobile credit
Newbie
Aug 7, 2007
12 posts
Hello all,

Thanks to this thread I imported an 08 outback in Sept. for my wife ($14,000 in savings with a 93 cent $). Now I'm looking for a Toyota or Nissan Truck for myself; as well, I've convinced my father in law to purchase his new Ford truck in the US.

Does anyone have any recent info on whether or not any of those 3 companies will sell to Canadians? I searched the thread but couldn't find anything.

Thanks in advance for the help.
Sr. Member
Feb 8, 2005
621 posts
Ford doesn't honour rebates across borders, otherwise they don't care where you buy, as long as it's a Ford. Of course, they may change their minds in the future.
Member
Nov 18, 2006
380 posts
27 upvotes
An update on my email exchanges with Toyota Canada. Summary: they all tote the same party line - heavy duty batteries/alternators that work in Minnesota must not work in Ottawa, which is further south, and warrant a $13000 price difference. They must think we're stupid.


Dear Mr. [JM]:

Thank you for your most recent email.

As previously advised, Toyota vehicles distributed in the US and Canada may not have identical equipment or options. When Toyota Canada considers equipment on Toyota vehicles for the Canadian market, certain options and features are selected on a model-by-model basis, that we believe are best suited for Canada's challenging climatic and driving conditions. For example, depending on the model, a Canadian vehicle may include heavy-duty heaters, batteries or alternators. These may differ from equipment and options selected for vehicles distributed and sold in the U.S. market. Your local Toyota will be able to provide you with much more information about the differences in equipment on US and Canadian vehicles.

Thank you once again for writing. We have noted your comments regarding the pricing disparity and have forwarded them to the appropriate departments within Toyota Canada for information purposes.

Sincerely,

Alice McNamee
Toyota Canada Inc.

[INDENT]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nina,

Thank you for your response. Aside from daytime running lights (DRL) and a
slightly different engine immobilizer (though my interpretation of the
documentation surrounding the engine immobilizer is that the immobilizers
in the US are effetively the same), I'm curious as to what changes warrant
a difference of over $10,000. I appreciate that the dollar parity is
relavitely recent, but the dollar has been quite close (within 10-15c of
US) for 2 years now and the invoice/MSRP prices don't reflect that
change. Instead, Canadians are paying FAR more for a nearly identical
vehicle.

I honestly would love to buy a Toyota Prius. You have made a fabulous
vehicle and I want to reduce my greenhouse gas footprint. That said, I
can't afford the Canadian price. Additionally, I'm not sure if you think
that with your move to close the loophole of importing US-bought vehicles
into Canada, you would force Canadian consumers of your vehicles to buy
Canadian. I firmly believe you'll find consumer backlash on this point -
don't underestimate the value of having 10,000 after-tax dollars in your
pocket. Many consumers (and I'm not exaggerating to make a point - check
out the any number of web forums on automobile sites) are heading to the US
still, but are instead purchasing Subarus because they're still alowing
vehicles purchased in the US to be imported into Canada.


Sincerely,
[JM]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
toyota_feedback@toyota.ca writes:
Dear Mr. [JM]:

Thank you for your recent email to our company.

Toyota Canada sets its prices (the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price
(MSRP) for its vehicles based on competitive factors in the Canadian
market. However, the recent weakening of the US dollar and resulting
narrowing of the US and Canadian exchange rate recently has made the
purchase of products in the US attractive to Canadian consumers.

You may be interested to know also that Toyota vehicles distributed in the
US and Canada may not have identical equipment or meet the same regulatory
requirements. And, when Toyota Canada considers equipment on Toyota
vehicles for the Canadian market, we select certain options and features,
on a model-by-model basis, that we believe are best suited for Canada's
challenging climatic and driving conditions.

When a US vehicle is brought into Canada, the importer must ensure it
complies with Canadian regulatory requirements, like mandatory daylight
running lights, an appropriate vehicle immobilization system, etc. In
addition, the costs to retrofit or modify a vehicle in order for it to be
brought into Canada are the responsibility of the owner or person importing
the vehicle.

For further information on importing a vehicle to Canada, we suggest you
visit the website of The Registrar of Imported Vehicles (a division of
Transport Canada). The address is as follows: www.riv.ca . If you prefer,
you may call them at 1-888-848-8240.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Sincerely,

Nina Malik
Toyota Canada Inc.[/INDENT]
Newbie
Nov 7, 2007
22 posts
toronto
superwell wrote: I think your emails are very insightfull and you bring many good points to them, but I have to disagree with one of the things mentioned, do you think honestly you did anything but screw the average canadian by telling honda what dealership is doing the importing and reselling? All that happens now is that and average canadian that was "afraid" of importing will not be able to purchase a car, given higher than the import price in canada from a honda dealership, as now honda will slap around that dealership for making it harder for them to state their point. Now all I see happen is today will be the same as yesterday but now those cars will be exported back to the US and the rest of us the wouldn't of imported because of many reasons can't get a deal. Do get me wrong, I would of done the same to prove my point but do you think one person with a email the size of a stephen king novel is really going to do anything? Your wasting your time and energy, import a car if you like, if you don't save your fingers the time and effort and send an email to the guys that can do something like the government...but even then don't waste your time.

I must take issue.

The aforementioned official HONDA dealership is selling a 'USED' 07 Ridgeline/leather, with no Honda warranty (don't get me started on the aftermarket warranty companies) for $36000 Cdn. I just bought my brand new 07 Ridgeline/leather, in Toronto, for $34600+Freight=$36000 Cdn. I have a warranty and .9% financing 4yrs. Now, how on earth is the deal the dealership is offering a good deal for "...average Canadian that was "afraid" of importing..." You think exposing this sham is taking away a fair deal from the average canadian. are you kidding?

Is the definition of being a Canadian 'yes, I know I'm getting screwed over and I'm not happy about it but I'm not going to do anything about it because bending over happily and taking it like a real Canadian without complaining is what separates us from those greedy americans consumers.'
Jr. Member
Sep 10, 2006
181 posts
6 upvotes
No not neccessary, if he can get any Toyota Sienna 2008 manufactured before september 2008 he can import it ...


JWL wrote: According to the current list this car is INADMISSIBLE!!

[IMG]http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1126 ... hf2.th.png[/IMG]

I sent a message to RFD to try to contact this member so hopefully he can stop this trainwreck.

MODS can you help contacting this member?
Deal Guru
User avatar
Nov 18, 2005
11326 posts
2783 upvotes
Kingston
Food for thought for those who can't understand why Cdn auto prices haven't quickly dropped to US levels along with the dollar. Although it may seem like automakers are not adjusting prices so they can make huge margins, I can see 3+ big issues that automakers are facing because of the rapid and dramatic change in the Cdn$ vs. US$:

1/ Used car inventory. If the dealer has a used car on his lot that he paid $X for as a trade-in and then new car prices drop 20+%, the value of their used cars also drops 20%. That
Jr. Member
Jan 1, 2007
137 posts
5 upvotes
Scarborough
JWL wrote: Actually on or before Sept 1, 2007 (which is a whole year earlier than Sept 2008), but your point is valid.

I hope he/she has this right but there wouldn't be a lot of new Sienna's on the lot now that were manufactured 14+ months ago.
Why is it 14+ months ago? Should be 2+ months ago. :lol:
Newbie
Sep 6, 2006
49 posts
JWL wrote: Actually on or before Sept 1, 2007 (which is a whole year earlier than Sept 2008), but your point is valid.

I hope he/she has this right but there wouldn't be a lot of new Sienna's on the lot now that were manufactured 14+ months ago.
I think you mean to say manufactured 2+ months ago, I would think there would still be quite a few to be found...
Newbie
Oct 31, 2007
67 posts
Stats Canada shows that more than 1.66 million new vechiles were sold in Canada in 2006. I was not able to find average purchase price but I remember it was around 30K. The average markups comparing to US prices (www.ATaleofTwoPrices.com) is between 20% to 40%. I will use the low end number in calculation

so the total amount Canadians overpaid is about 1.66m * 30000* 20% = 10 billion. oh boy.
Compare car prices between U.S. and Canada at www.ATaleofTwoPrices.com
Banned
May 13, 2006
728 posts
110phil wrote: I'd guess that Honda doesn't care that much that dealers are importing used US cars. GM dealers (and I think some others) are advertising that explicitly.

Raikonnen is taking a harder line than I would. I'd let Honda call me. Hey, maybe they're offering big discounts! :)
I don't think Honda Canada has any say over their dealers on what used cars they can sell.

All dealers have competing brands on their used car lots.

Saying that - it is hypocritical of dealers saying don't buy a new car in the US while they are turning a larger profit on bringing up used cars.

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