Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Newbie
Nov 16, 2007
24 posts
Lake Country, BC
rgc97 wrote: Transport Canada is proposing an amendment to immobilizer regulations, which will allow US vehicles with an electronic immobilizer to come into Canada. This will clear things up for many people, and take away the ploy used by several manufacturers to prevent us from bringing in vehicles.

See: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/2 ... e14-e.html

It's important, during the 15 day review period, to have as many RFDers as possible endorse this proposed change.

WHAT TO DO

e-mail your comment to: davisda@tc.gc.ca <davisda@tc.gc.ca>

E-Mail heading: RE: Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Importation of Vehicles &#8212; Section 12); Canada Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 48 &#8212; December 1, 2007

Suggested Message:

Dear Minister:

As a Canadian taxpayer, and recent importer of a US purchased vehicle, I strongly support these proposed changes. I want to thank Transport Canada for a fair and thorough analysis of the situation, and the proposal of an excellent solution.

I remain concerned that manufacturers will continue to try to thwart the right of Canadians to 'vote with their wallets'. If manufacturers would adjust their Canadian prices to more closely align with US prices, there would be no need for Canadians to go south for their vehicle purchase.

It is unfortunate (and to me, unethical) that manufacturers are using the current immobilizer regulations to prevent the importation of many popular vehicles, at typical savings of ten to twenty thousand dollars. Transport Canada could not have anticipated this when the original regulations were drafted, and then brought into law. The proposed changes will correct this embarrassing situation.

I look forward to the registration of these regulations, and the return to fairer trade in vehicles.

Yours truly,

<Your name here>



rgc97 - Great point and great letter. I made a copy and sent it off two minutes ago. Thanks.

As GCCG commented in post #10261, I also think it's time to find the decision makers responsible for ripping us off so aggressively & for so long in plain view of our government regulatory bodies. We still have work to do. Hopefully the Competition Bureau won't be too occupied with red herrings -er, chocolatiers- to investigate the scandal that puts chocolate price fixing to shame in terms of scope and damage.

Congrats everyone! It sounds like we've got the attention of someone in charge. Thanks to MM too!
Newbie
Oct 21, 2007
35 posts
Montreal
Right on! There is a difference between being fair, helping, and then enjoying the benefits....versus simple, outright self-promotion. The Subaru dealers on this form have done nothing to deserve any bad press. Keep doing what you are doing...Canadians and yourselves are mutually benefiting!!
eastsidesubaru wrote: Well there is a difference between self promotion or also trying to help out and participate in the discussion and contribute information. (I am not saying Xan is doing one or the other but just making a point).. Not to toot my own horn but I feel like I am pretty well versed in the process now since I do often have to help walk my customers through it. So I am here to self promote but also just to generally participate in the discussion and help out. Be aware that for dealers like Xan and I, we often spend 5 times as much time and energy on a canadian deal as a local one and in my case I make the same commission.. so give him a break... If you are selling cars to Canada you have to enjoy it at least a little bit since it is fairly time consuming. Not to mention there are a /lot/ more things that can go wrong. But it is fun to help out and nice to think that I am saving people $10,000+ and introducing new people to a brand I am love with (Subaru) that normally might not be able to afford the car they are buying...
I can't tell you how many canadians have come up to me when they are taking delivery of their new car and said, "Zach, thank you so much... Honestly if we couldn't get this pricing, we wouldn't be buying a (Tribeca, etc) as we simply couldn't afford it." ... So that is a pretty *cool* feeling and definitely rewarding. Anyway I'm rambling now but you get the point..give Xan a break.
Newbie
Nov 29, 2007
35 posts
Has anyone imported a Porsche before? If so, can you PM me? Is there any conversion needed for a Cayenne to comply with the Canadian standard?

Anyway, I am interested in getting a 2008 Porsche Cayenne. Does US Porsche dealers sell to Canadians? If not, can I go through an American friend?

Do they charge for the recall letter like BMW?

Is warranty covered in Canada?

Thanks.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
205 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
dotcalamitie wrote: My niece just moved to New Jersey right across from NYC where she works now. My brother wants a BMW X5. If he purchases an X5 in New York State, can we use my nieces NJ address or does my niece have to purchase the vehicle?
I believe NJ and NY have reciprocal taxation agreements where NY can collect NJ taxes.

I'm 99% sure I read that at the NY DMV website.

If that's the case you're still paying taxes but can buy the X5 as a used vehicle.
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!
Newbie
Jul 19, 2007
35 posts
eastsidesubaru wrote: Well there is a difference between self promotion or also trying to help out and participate in the discussion and contribute information. (I am not saying Xan is doing one or the other but just making a point).. Not to toot my own horn but I feel like I am pretty well versed in the process now since I do often have to help walk my customers through it. So I am here to self promote but also just to generally participate in the discussion and help out. Be aware that for dealers like Xan and I, we often spend 5 times as much time and energy on a canadian deal as a local one and in my case I make the same commission.. so give him a break... If you are selling cars to Canada you have to enjoy it at least a little bit since it is fairly time consuming. Not to mention there are a /lot/ more things that can go wrong. But it is fun to help out and nice to think that I am saving people $10,000+ and introducing new people to a brand I am love with (Subaru) that normally might not be able to afford the car they are buying...
I can't tell you how many canadians have come up to me when they are taking delivery of their new car and said, "Zach, thank you so much... Honestly if we couldn't get this pricing, we wouldn't be buying a (Tribeca, etc) as we simply couldn't afford it." ... So that is a pretty *cool* feeling and definitely rewarding. Anyway I'm rambling now but you get the point..give Xan a break.
I couldn't have said it better myself. In any situation in life, all you can do is your best. I will never hesitate to say how thankful I am for EVERYONE that has CONTRIBUTED to this. The folks that poo poo others can be left out of that. I am still trying to find a way to have my GTG :)
Karl Lindemuth
Internet Sales Manager
Van Bortel Subaru
http://www.buildyourownsubaru.com
800.724.8872 toll free
585.415.8785 cell
Deal Addict
Apr 14, 2004
1191 posts
175 upvotes
Montreal
bluemule999 wrote: Right on! There is a difference between being fair, helping, and then enjoying the benefits....versus simple, outright self-promotion. The Subaru dealers on this form have done nothing to deserve any bad press. Keep doing what you are doing...Canadians and yourselves are mutually benefiting!!
I think if someone steps out of bounds, the moderators will decide. Not anyone of us.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
205 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
I think that US car dealers listing their wares on this site is great. Here's why:

"Civilians" who are too lazy to do their own research can see who the real players are and get an idea on pricing.

They can also be used at a direct source for information on packages and trim levels. As someone said earlier in the post, it's no different than someone posting "insider" pricing you can get at a retailer by knowing the secret handshake.

While the Canadian manufacturers would flip, I think the US dealers should post "special pricing" on this site or at least links so people can actually see how much they're being hosed in Canada.

I think they are reluctant to post anything monetarily specific here since their Canadian compatriots would go whining to the head office in Japan (in the case of Subaru)

I bet if you ask nicely they would be please to share with you the current manufacturer-to-dealer incentives that are offered. Sometimes the dealers get free automatic transmission, moonroofs and accessories that are available to the consumer at little or no cost (it does happen). Remember unless they are in collusion, they wouldn't get caught up in violating the US Sherman act. <nudge nudge>

In my youth I had a source inside GM who was able to get me the current manufacturer-to-dealer incentives at that time and I found out that the car I eventually bought came with no charge air conditioning, automatic transmission, power window and locks from the factory. The first dealer I spoke to never mentioned that. Eventually I found one who did (and I bought from them).

I know if you ask the dealers posting here for a special $100 off RFD initiative, they'd be sure to pass one along.

Too bad it's only Subaru dealers posting on this thread. There should be others as well.

Then again, I personally bought a Subaru so the rest don't matter.

As far as BMW goes (using a thick British accent), anyone who thinks a 3 series vehicle deserves a "premium" moniker will believe anything. I love that BMW marketing person who said they are "reluctant to discount" their vehicles since it would dilute the perception of having a premium car.

Here's a question:

Who's the idiot? The person who pays full retail on a BMW in Canada or:
A saavy Canadian who buys a car in the US for half the amount?

I would be surprised to think it would be split 50/50. Some people actually believe the marketing. They're no better than the (dB) diamond cartel nut maybe that's just a case for successful marketing. The rules at BMW is, give the perception that by driving our car, you've made it. It seems to work since in the Toronto area, there are so many young punks driving them. They are almost a popular as the Civics.
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!
Member
Nov 18, 2006
379 posts
25 upvotes
[quote="rgc97" post_id="6020290" time="1196479933" user_id="103185"]Transport Canada is proposing an amendment to immobilizer regulations, which will allow US vehicles with an electronic immobilizer to come into Canada. This will clear things up for many people, and take away the ploy used by several manufacturers to prevent us from bringing in vehicles.

See: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/partI/2007/2 ... e14-e.html

It's important, during the 15 day review period, to have as many RFDers as possible endorse this proposed change.

WHAT TO DO

e-mail your comment to: davisda@tc.gc.ca <davisda@tc.gc.ca>

E-Mail heading: RE: Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Importation of Vehicles
Member
Nov 8, 2007
272 posts
55 upvotes
White Rock BC
Here is a Federal Trade commission compaint online form. If we all bombard them with examples of OEMs in the US that refuse to sell to Canadians maybe we can get the ball rolling on anticompetitive trade practices. Remember the dealers want to sell to us but the OEMs put pressure on them not to. I contacted a US lawyer regarding the restriction for sales to Canadians and they would not beleive me.

Here is the online form. 50000 complaints might do something

https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.star ... _CODE=PU01
Newbie
Jul 19, 2007
35 posts
We have no plans to change our pricing policy. However, if Subaru says no more rebates or incentives for exported cars we HAVE to follow that. Now, there are two types of incentives. There is dealer cash, an incentive from the manufacturer to the dealer, and then there is customer cash, or rebate. We will have to wait and see. Dealer cash may still apply to Canadian sales. We'll have to wait and see.
Karl Lindemuth
Internet Sales Manager
Van Bortel Subaru
http://www.buildyourownsubaru.com
800.724.8872 toll free
585.415.8785 cell
Newbie
Oct 20, 2005
26 posts
Great thread - learned a lot. The latest policy change on immobilizers and admissibility for me has been a good and bad thing. Good in that now there is more choice, but bad because of choices, choices, choices .... :D

Don't mean to be the one to look at the dark-side of things, but since manufacturers don't publicly list what makes their vehicles inadmissible, what stops them from saying something else is "wrong" with the car that still makes it inadmissible. I guess I will have to wait for the next update on the RIV for confirmation. I wonder whether the RIV will drag their feet on the update because now it is no longer advantageous for the car manufacturers.
Newbie
Nov 3, 2007
90 posts
03terminator wrote: So, the tide went out and we see who is swimming naked, Since Transport Canada did the right thing for Canadians, we should focus on the OEMS discriminatory trade practices. US banks were giving mortgages to illegal aliens and a Canadians cannot buy a new car!

Illegal Mexicans have more rights in the USA than legal citizens there lol
I'd vote for Lou Dobbs over any Canadian or American Politian.

Too bad Canada has no Lou of our own.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 2, 2003
4691 posts
811 upvotes
SK
2ride4life wrote: Great thread - learned a lot. The latest policy change on immobilizers and admissibility for me has been a good and bad thing. Good in that now there is more choice, but bad because of choices, choices, choices .... :D

Don't mean to be the one to look at the dark-side of things, but since manufacturers don't publicly list what makes their vehicles inadmissible, what stops them from saying something else is "wrong" with the car that still makes it inadmissible. I guess I will have to wait for the next update on the RIV for confirmation. I wonder whether the RIV will drag their feet on the update because now it is no longer advantageous for the car manufacturers.
If the manufacture issued documents to Transport Canada saying everything is fine except the immobilizer issue then I'm pretty sure they can't retract it now.
If they come up with something new then it will show how anti-NAFTA these manufactures are and the government should fine them.
shopper-X
Deal Addict
Dec 23, 2005
2147 posts
340 upvotes
Canada
Man I hate RIV!

I send them this simple email :

I want to import a new 2008 Toyota Tacoma but it says inadmissible. See
explanations. From what I can tell is if its manufactured before Sept 1 2007 a 2008 will be admissible into Canada.
Is this correct?


And they replay with this, cant they just say yes or no?? Look at waht they say in red below. What am I to think?:

Thank for your recent inquiry about importing a SUV/MPV, Mini Van and
Truck from the United States into Canada.


To import a vehicle from the U.S. the vehicle must be cited as
admissible on Transport Canada's List of Vehicles Admissible from the
United States. Assuming this vehicle is listed as admissible, the
vehicle must also bear a Statement of Compliance label affixed by the
Original Equipment Manufacturer stating that "the vehicle as
manufactured to comply with all US federal emission, bumper and safety
standards on the date of manufacture". Failing that, we will accept a
letter from the manufacturer stating the same


The Transport Canada US Vehicle Admissibility List can be viewed at:
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importat ... /VAFUS.pdf OR
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/importat ... t/Menu.htm .


Please note that the admissibility list is subject to revise without
notification.


Admissibility References and Pages numbers


SUV/ MPV/ Mini Vans - Manufactured BEFORE September 1st 2007
-Section 5.3, Page 20



SUV/MPV/ Mini Vans- Manufactured AFTER September 1st 2007
-Section 5.4, Page 21 to 24



Trucks with a GVWR less then 4536kg or more than 4536 kg- Manufactured
BEFORE September 1 2007
-Section 2, Page 7



Trucks with a GVWR under 4536 kg, - Manufactured AFTER September 1 2007
-Section 12, Page 37 to 39



Please be advised that all the SUV's, Minivans and Trucks listed as
INADMISSIBLE on the List of Admissible Vehicles from the United Stats
cannot be processed by this office, regardless of the date of purchase
or entry.


These files have been placed on hold by Transport Canada and as a result
we are unable to access them at this time.


Please monitor Transport Canada's website at www.tc.gc.ca for any
changes in policy.


Please check our website at www.riv.ca for more information.


Under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act the responsibility for bringing an
imported vehicle into compliance with Canadian safety regulations lies
entirely with the importer; the RIV cannot be held responsible for any
reason should the importer fail to complete the process successfully.
Any information provided by the RIV is strictly based on the facts
presented by the importer and reliance upon such information is at the
importer's discretion.


The information contained in this email is intended to assist
individuals interested in importing a vehicle from the United States,
and contains information on the admissibility of various makes, models,
model years and class of vehicles provided by the original equipment
manufacturer. This information is contained on the List of Vehicles
Admissible Form the United States which is available to the public on
our web site at www.riv.ca or directly at:


http://www.riv.ca/english/US_vehicle_admissibility.pdf


The admissibility of any particular make, model and model year of
vehicle can only be ultimately determined by a) the presentation of the
vehicle to Canada Customs at the time of importation, b) the decoding of
the VIN contained on the vehicle import form - form 1 as presented to
Canada Customs, and c) the successful completion of the federal
inspection.

Thank you for your co-operation and patience at this time.
Registrar of Imported Vehicles.
Newbie
Nov 3, 2007
90 posts
That is so true ! I had one of these dumb people from work believing the same thing, because they pay more, they believe they made it and they own a "Luxury" 328 coupe. LOL I guess they are paying for "Exclusivity" not for any sort of value, if anything, the Mercedes C300 is more reasonable when it comes to features included and bang for the buck i think than a bmw 328. Although the Merc is still overpriced by at least 6K IMO.



Monsieurmaggot wrote:
As far as BMW goes (using a thick British accent), anyone who thinks a 3 series vehicle deserves a "premium" moniker will believe anything. I love that BMW marketing person who said they are "reluctant to discount" their vehicles since it would dilute the perception of having a premium car.

Here's a question:

Who's the idiot? The person who pays full retail on a BMW in Canada or:
A saavy Canadian who buys a car in the US for half the amount?

I would be surprised to think it would be split 50/50. Some people actually believe the marketing. They're no better than the (dB) diamond cartel nut maybe that's just a case for successful marketing. The rules at BMW is, give the perception that by driving our car, you've made it. It seems to work since in the Toronto area, there are so many young punks driving them. They are almost a popular as the Civics.
Newbie
Dec 12, 2005
23 posts
karl_at_vanbortel wrote: We have no plans to change our pricing policy. However, if Subaru says no more rebates or incentives for exported cars we HAVE to follow that. Now, there are two types of incentives. There is dealer cash, an incentive from the manufacturer to the dealer, and then there is customer cash, or rebate. We will have to wait and see. Dealer cash may still apply to Canadian sales. We'll have to wait and see.

Hmmm is Karl implying/hinting that rebates come December 4th won't apply to Canadian car buyers? Maybe SoA sent out a missive to dealers that rebates (like Ford does) won't apply to Canadian buyers. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's coming thru the pipe. But it would be rather unfortunate.

P.S. We should all become illegal aliens and then we wouldn't be discriminated against. ;)
Newbie
Oct 31, 2007
22 posts
scouzi wrote: I think if someone steps out of bounds, the moderators will decide. Not anyone of us.
I agree. There are tons of people asking all the time where's a good place to buy a car and they respond to it. It would be different if this thread was about what your favorite car was but it's not, it's about buying/importing cars and how and where to do it. Should there be another thread for dealers? Maybe but it certainly isn't something being demanded by the majority of people here.
Newbie
Nov 4, 2007
6 posts
Thanks to MM for starting the thread, all those who blazed the trail before me, LostHorizon, as well as Zach & Becca at Eastside Subaru.

The only real glitch I had to do with BC Provincial Inspection. It is required in BC for a new vehicle according to BC&#8217;s Ministry of Transportation. Post 5899 & several Ontario posts led me to believe it wasn&#8217;t required in BC. (I called the number on RIV&#8217;s &#8220;Important notice for British Columbia residents&#8221; link, and they confirmed BC provincial exam is required in addition to the Federal one.) So CT got another $110.79 out of me.

Here's a couple of shots of our new baby in the beginnings of our first snowfall of the year. 15cm predicted, yahoo!
[IMG]http://picasaweb.google.ca/tucdream/2008NovTucSTribeca[/IMG]
(Edit: I guess I'm too much of an RFD rookie to get image posting rights. See our pix at http://picasaweb.google.ca/tucdream/2008NovTucSTribeca)
Newbie
Jul 19, 2007
35 posts
mak wrote: Hmmm is Karl implying/hinting that rebates come December 4th won't apply to Canadian car buyers? Maybe SoA sent out a missive to dealers that rebates (like Ford does) won't apply to Canadian buyers. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what's coming thru the pipe. But it would be rather unfortunate.

P.S. We should all become illegal aliens and then we wouldn't be discriminated against. ;)
After a slew of phone calls and a letter to the current SOA president by Kitty, it looks like the change (IF it happens) will be as of the beginning of 2008.
Karl Lindemuth
Internet Sales Manager
Van Bortel Subaru
http://www.buildyourownsubaru.com
800.724.8872 toll free
585.415.8785 cell
Jr. Member
User avatar
Nov 16, 2007
185 posts
13 upvotes
Duncan
The Globe is reporting

[INDENT]In an about-face yesterday, the Harper government offered an amnesty to 1,100 U.S.-purchased vehicles whose owners had been forced to ground them because they failed to meet new Canadian requirements for anti-theft features.[/INDENT]

See http://www.reportonbusiness.com/servlet ... bNews/home

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