Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Member
May 30, 2006
296 posts
13 upvotes
Chubien wrote: Ziploc, ... this has to be the most narrow minded dumb statement I have read in the 600+ pages !! :rolleyes:
here U are....thanks for giving me reason....

and study a history a bid and You might understand....

and sorry if You felt pointed, but sometimes the truth hurts....
Member
May 30, 2006
296 posts
13 upvotes
GougingCarCartelGroup wrote: I don't know about you guys, but i have such a bad taste from talking to the Car manufacturers in this country that i am willing to drive my car into the ground before i purchase another.

And when i do purchase a car, it will be from the States, even if i only save 5K on it, i will not do any business in Canada, this country needs to wake up, we need to act, not talk about things, enough is enough already, a united front against greedy bastard car manufacturers is needed.

In fact my whole goal in life will be to spread the truth about these dirty rats, to anyone within earshot.
I'm starting to feeling the same way....


and the problem is The canadian car companies are playing pure capitalism game......
but when the customers stars to play the same game and getting cheaper out of the country cars...they don't like that and dissaprove it with force....
what applies to them can't apply to the others....
Deal Addict
Apr 14, 2004
1191 posts
175 upvotes
Montreal
ziploc wrote: That's how the business should be done...


I think the problem here is the Quebecers mentality....there aren't looking into the future and acting on what they believe in their heads.....
they think that I ''attacked'' them personally by buying from another country, and they think that acting like that the will just prevent more people from importing cars....


that's why Montreal were overtake by Toronto and Quebec by Ontario...
they are selfish and close minded....


I know if I will go and see the owner, it might change...but what kind of relation i will then have with the service guys....i prefer change the dealer and think that they just don't deserve my money....
I'm getting good service form a Quebec Subaru dealer.
Newbie
Jul 23, 2007
7 posts
Montreal
ziploc wrote: here U are....thanks for giving me reason....

and study a history a bid and You might understand....

and sorry if You felt pointed, but sometimes the truth hurts....
Ziploc,

Kind off ironic someone with "Ziploc" for a Nickname spills some much shite in a forum.
that's why Montreal were overtake by Toronto and Quebec by Ontario...
they are selfish and close minded....
What part of history are you refering to exactly ???? :lol:

The dealer issues that some of us are experiencing are nation wide and not regional, there are good dealers and there are not so good dealers . Up to you to find a good one. Not sure what your background is and why your frustrations with Quebec but I suspect it has nothing to do with buying a car in the US !
Newbie
Jul 23, 2007
7 posts
Montreal
scouzi wrote: I'm getting good service form a Quebec Subaru dealer.
Scouzi, Who to you go to for service ?
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
205 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
I just got the funniest email from a friend of mine who thought I would get a kick out of something he heard. At a party there was some discussion about cross-border car sales and my friend mentioned that I had purchased a Subaru in the US. Someone who he thinks works in a Toronto-area car dealership let the group in on a "major story that's about to break".

The reason why Subaru permits cross-border sales is -- wait! here it comes--: Is that Subaru can't get enough market share in North America and is about to file for bankruptcy and shut down the NA Operations. They are attempting to sell the remaining stock before the announcement comes down in the new year.

If true, "anyone who buys a Subaru in the US will be left with a vehicle that can't get serviced!"

I guess the guy was too stupid to figure out that Canada is part of North America and that would also imply that the Canadian operations would also be shutting down.

I'm just pissing myself it's too funny.

What's scary is that someone probably will believe that story.

Man the Canadian marketers are resorting to all kinds of tactics.

If true, I will have a collector car that will be highly-prized by the automotive connoisseur. I think I will tack on an extra $5k when I eventually sell my car and claim that it's "RARE".
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
205 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
I see West Herr has set up a link for Canadian customers (just like cars101.com).

Can it get any easier to buy in the US?:

http://westherr.com/How_to_Import_Or_Ex ... om_USA.cfm

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like they're selling more than just Subaru to Canadians now. They have over 600 Fords, Nissans and Subarus are listed as "available to Canadians" on the site.

Be curious to see how long that stay up before some Canadian dealership whines. I think West Herr is big enough (22 brands) that I hope they might just tell them to take a hike...

Here's the list of current rebates on the Subarus:

Outbacks:

$1,500 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK Outback models
$1,500 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5i models
$1,250 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5i Limited models
$1,250 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5i L.L.Bean Edition models
$1,250 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5i Limited L.L.Bean Edition models
$750 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 2.5 XT Limited models
$750 Customer Cash on 08 OUTBACK 3.0 R L.L.Bean models

$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5i Wagon models (non-limited models)
$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5i Limited Wagon models
$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5i Limited Sedan models
$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5i L.L.Bean models
$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 2.5 XT Limited Wagon models
$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 3.0 R L.L.Bean Sedan models
$1,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 OUTBACK 3.0 R L.L.Bean Wagon models

Tribeca:

No rebates on the 2008s (yet!)
$3,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 TRIBECA 7-Passenger models
$3,500 Customer Cash on NEW 07 TRIBECA 5-Passenger models

Legacy:

$1,000 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5i models
$1,000 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5i Special Edition models
$1,000 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5i Limited models
$750 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5 GT Limited models
$0 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 2.5 GT spec.B model
$750 Customer Cash on 08 LEGACY 3.0 R Limited models

$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 LEGACY 2.5i models
$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 LEGACY 2.5 GT Limited models
$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 LEGACY 2.5 GT spec.B models

Forester:

$1,500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER 2.5 X models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER Sports 2.5 X models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER 2.5 X Premium models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER 2.5 X L.L.Bean models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER Sports 2.5 XT models
$500 Customer Cash on 08 FORESTER 2.5 XT Limited models

$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER 2.5 X models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER 2.5 X Premium models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER Sports 2.5 X models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER 2.5 X L.L.Bean models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER Sports 2.5 XT models
$2,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 FORESTER 2.5 XT Limited models

Impreza:

No rebates on the 2008s (yet!)

$1,000 Customer Cash on NEW 07 IMPREZA 2.5i Sedan and Wagon models
$750 Customer Cash on NEW 07 IMPREZA WRX Sedan and Wagon models
$0 Customer Cash on NEW 07 IMPREZA WRX STI models

Tack on another $1000 or so in holdbacks and manufacturer to dealer incentives and a $100 internet purchase discount, you won't find a better deal anywhere close to this in Canada. Remember the US pricing is always based on the INVOICE price not the Canadian insistence on MSRP pricing. The PDI is also $800 cheaper.
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!
Member
Aug 12, 2003
451 posts
28 upvotes
Toronto
Monsieurmaggot wrote: I see West Herr has set up a link for Canadian customers (just like cars101.com).

Can it get any easier to buy in the US?:

http://westherr.com/How_to_Import_Or_Ex ... om_USA.cfm

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it looks like they're selling more than just Subaru to Canadians now. They have over 600 Fords, Nissans and Subarus are listed as "available to Canadians" on the site.

Be curious to see how long that stay up before some Canadian dealership whines. I think West Herr is big enough (22 brands) that I hope they might just tell them to take a hike...
Unfortunately it looks like used vehicles only:

"We have over 800 used cars that qualify for export* [See listing of USED vehicles that maybe exportable to Canada]"
Sr. Member
Mar 14, 2005
879 posts
77 upvotes
The link below that says NEW cars.

"We have over 800 used cars that qualify for export* [See listing of USED vehicles that maybe exportable to Canada]
The largest assortment of new cars that qualify for export anywhere in NY* [See listing of NEW vehicles that maybe exportable to Canada]"
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
205 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
GoogleFish wrote: Unfortunately it looks like used vehicles only:

"We have over 800 used cars that qualify for export* [See listing of USED vehicles that maybe exportable to Canada]"
Then on the following line it says "see listing for new cars exportable to Canada".

That's where the 600+ (NEW Subaru, Nissans and Fords) are listed. Gotta read the whole paragraph or you get it out of context.

From the West Herr site:

# New vehicles

* Most new vehicle manufacturers prevent the export of their respective models to Canada in their franchise rules. However there are a few exceptions
o Subaru (some model restrictions) Click here to see Subaru's available for export to Canada
o Nissan (some model restrictions and the loss of the manufacturer's warranty) Click here to see Nissan's available for export to Canada
o Ford (some model restrictions) Click here to see Ford's available for export to Canada
o Lincoln (some model restrictions) Click here to see Lincolns available for export to Canada
o Mercury (some model restrictions) Click here to see Mercury's available for export to Canada
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!
Member
User avatar
Mar 11, 2006
441 posts
30 upvotes
In today's (Dec. 2nd, 2007) Burlington (Ontario) Post there is an article titled "Car Bargains Rare in the US" by Roy Green. If I can find an electronic copy I will post.

At first I though it was an advertorial. I can't find "advertorial" printed anywhere near the article.

Here's a list of the main points of the article:

-current Canadian incentives negate most of the US savings
-many manufacturers won't honour warranty and roadside assistance plans-have to drive back to US to get work done
-can't finance in US
-miles only speedo-have to get a new speedometer
-don't have same standards for emissions or safety (bumpers)
-no French instructions for airbag -$$ for refit
-duty and taxes -you have to pay US taxes +14 percent PST and GST @ border -6.1 percent duty on cars manufactured outside NA
-must ensure daytime running lights ". . which aren't available on U.S.-made vehicles."
-cannot trade vehicle in to the US therefore you miss out on 14 percent tax savings
-US cars are only worth 60 percent of the Canadian value


Here are two of my favourite quotes in the article:

"Even before those programs were introduced (current Canadian rebate programs), automotive consultant Dennis DeRosier downplayed the cross-border price differences, saying it amounted to only about $1000 across two-thirds of the market."

and

"When (customers) do their research, they'll see more easily that the deals out there are pretty similar between the U.S. and Canada and also better than they were in October. It becomes more of an incentive to get out there in the market." Stuart Schorr, Senior Communication Manager, Chrysler Canada.

Shame on your Roy Green for writing this article. Where are your facts? Did you interview anyone who has recently purchased a vehicle in the US and imported it to Canada? No! Your sources consist solely of Canadian automotive industry employees.

Are there any articles out there that tell the true story? IMHO this story is a disservice to the Canadian consumer - and is a waste of paper.

Anyone care to comment on the above points?
Newbie
Nov 8, 2007
61 posts
underpants wrote: In today's (Dec. 2nd, 2007) Burlington (Ontario) Post there is an article titled "Car Bargains Rare in the US" by Roy Green. If I can find an electronic copy I will post.

At first I though it was an advertorial. I can't find "advertorial" printed anywhere near the article.

Here's a list of the main points of the article:

-current Canadian incentives negate most of the US savings
-many manufacturers won't honour warranty and roadside assistance plans-have to drive back to US to get work done
-can't finance in US
-miles only speedo-have to get a new speedometer
-don't have same standards for emissions or safety (bumpers)
-no French instructions for airbag -$$ for refit
-duty and taxes -you have to pay US taxes +14 percent PST and GST @ border -6.1 percent duty on cars manufactured outside NA
-must ensure daytime running lights ". . which aren't available on U.S.-made vehicles."
-cannot trade vehicle in to the US therefore you miss out on 14 percent tax savings
-US cars are only worth 60 percent of the Canadian value


Here are two of my favourite quotes in the article:

"Even before those programs were introduced (current Canadian rebate programs), automotive consultant Dennis DeRosier downplayed the cross-border price differences, saying it amounted to only about $1000 across two-thirds of the market."

and

"When (customers) do their research, they'll see more easily that the deals out there are pretty similar between the U.S. and Canada and also better than they were in October. It becomes more of an incentive to get out there in the market." Stuart Schorr, Senior Communication Manager, Chrysler Canada.

Shame on your Roy Green for writing this article. Where are your facts? Did you interview anyone who has recently purchased a vehicle in the US and imported it to Canada? No! Your sources consist solely of Canadian automotive industry employees.

Are there any articles out there that tell the true story? IMHO this story is a disservice to the Canadian consumer - and is a waste of paper.

Anyone care to comment on the above points?
Yes...

He is clearly a moron with one of the following 2 traits -->

a) He is terrible at what he does for a living
b) He is only motivated by the money that was paid to him to write these lies...

Or there is, of course, the possibility that he exhibits both traits...
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
205 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
I see a bunch of RFDers have been displaying their Subaru Outbacks at Subaruoutback.org.

It's a great site for Subaru Outback owners to share pictures, stories and questions.

I see Karl is on the site and displays his XT. I have a couple of pictures of my beauty there as well.

With eight inches of snow today, I might go out and snap a few of me doing doughnuts in the parking lot.
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!
Newbie
Jul 26, 2007
82 posts
I have been away for a few days and,in catching up on my reading,have just discovered that Xan has been banned from RFD!!??!! Well,all of you who wanted to take a swipe at him seem to have gotten your way. You might as well ban me too. I was the one who persuaded him to join/post on RFD and made many referrals to him.As far as I know, they are all happy campers!I feel that the Moderators should, in all fairness, state why this ban has taken place.Thanks Xan,you don't deserve what they laid on you! A Pox on all e-Thugs!
Newbie
Jul 23, 2007
7 posts
Montreal
tico 1948 wrote: I have been away for a few days and,in catching up on my reading,have just discovered that Xan has been banned from RFD!!??!! Well,all of you who wanted to take a swipe at him seem to have gotten your way. You might as well ban me too. I was the one who persuaded him to join/post on RFD and made many referrals to him.As far as I know, they are all happy campers!I feel that the Moderators should, in all fairness, state why this ban has taken place.Thanks Xan,you don't deserve what they laid on you! A Pox on all e-Thugs!
I have been religiously been keeping up to date with this thread and have yet to even understand why Xan would have been banned. Because he has been offering us deals ? He seemed to have much more support on this forum as opposed to the handful of people on his back for promotting himself (This is what we want folks, Dealers working WITH us !!) This is Red Flad Deals after all ....
Anyhow I am picking up a LGT from him this week and he has been very professionnal throughout the process. I will be referring family/friends to him as he has been helpful and good to deal with.
Jr. Member
User avatar
Oct 15, 2007
120 posts
2 upvotes
Xinc wrote: I can definitely understand where you are coming from, but if Subaru Canada thinks by limiting the import from Subaru America they'll all be enjoying skyrocketing sales, they are kidding themselves.

Subaru Canada pits itself as competition with more luxurious brands, it's pricing is along the lines of intro Lexus/Infinity/European. But I seriously doubt many people who are considering a more luxurious vehicle will pick a Subaru instead of the aforementioned. Truth is, before this whole vehicle import fuzz became the hottest topic of discussion, I rarely saw any Subies on Toronto street. Even today they aren't very common and I can definitely count the number of Subies I encountered/day with one hand (with close to 70KM highway and 20KM local daily, btw did see an Outback and a Legacy with Van Botel plate frames this past month, looks brilliant :cheesygri )

If SOC somehow forced SOA into pushing new policies that limit/prohibit Canadian sales, people will just go to other options or hold out the purchase. But then I imagine SOA will be reluctant to give into SOC's pressure, they know they are "stealing" quite a lot of sales from the other Japanese big threes as well :lol:
+1 . The problem child for Subaru (the corp) is the Canadian Distributor, asleep at the marketing switch. They are pricing in the wrong market sector, which is magnified by the current dust up. I'm sure they are looking hard at this Subaru phenomon, and are printing up a bunch of high level marketing head pink slips...

I must say tho, that the dealers are (generally) being sensible about all this, and it leads me to believe that they have been pushing the block heads at subaru.ca to get the pricing in the right groove for some time. I actually think they may view those of us who x-border shopped as their allies in that fight.

On the other side of the war, BMW has been very successful, and full of themselves to the point that it may take 5 weeks to get your car in for servicing. They don't need more service customers, so their tantrums are acceptable to them. But, in the middle term, they are p*ssing a lot of customers off by their attitude. Will they ever care? Only if the sales go away, and that will only happen if their ultimate driving engineering stumbles. BMW.ca as a customer experience is like getting water boarded. They really are a nightmare of arrogant slime that washes over you.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
205 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
tico 1948 wrote: I have been away for a few days and,in catching up on my reading,have just discovered that Xan has been banned from RFD!!??!! Well,all of you who wanted to take a swipe at him seem to have gotten your way. You might as well ban me too. I was the one who persuaded him to join/post on RFD and made many referrals to him.As far as I know, they are all happy campers!I feel that the Moderators should, in all fairness, state why this ban has taken place.Thanks Xan,you don't deserve what they laid on you! A Pox on all e-Thugs!
What was that all about?

I just checked and his avatar says permanently banned.

Who banned him?
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!

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