Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Member
Jul 30, 2006
212 posts
99 upvotes
Toronto
cordarone wrote: The buying window for Canadians will be closing on Jan.3:

http://discountsubaru.com/index.asp?Pag ... stom&ID=12

... "Therefore, effective January 3, 2008, any vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers outside of SOA�s AOR (area of responsibility), which includes the continental U.S., are discouraged. This includes exports or sales to Canada or any other country without the express written consent of SOA.

Further, vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers to individuals or organizations residing outside of the continental United States will no longer be eligible for any Subaru of America incentive payment/programs such as vehicle incentives, ascent program payouts, quarterly/monthly dealer sales volume bonuses, Chairman�s Roundtable awards, etc. "
I just asked Karl... He said that no more rebate.. that's all. They can still sell to CNDian..
Jr. Member
Dec 8, 2006
177 posts
12 upvotes
The real answer. By the time the car gets to the border it will have a good number of miles on it. You are now buying a USED car. I would say, you can even buy from your friend for $25,000. Definitely, whatever you do, do not add in the tax and other fees (tax on tax is not warranted) - trust my experience, it is not called for and is common sense. Some warning you here are simply injecting their fear into you - with no actual experience.


torontostar1966 wrote: I have my friend bought a new car for me from the dealer. Then he will sell it to me as a used car.
This is what he payed.
car+destination 25,900
state tax 1,619
lic.+doc. 250
-----------------------
total 27,769

What number should I put on the Bill of Sale? use 25900+1619 or something like 26500 or maybe even lower? I don't want get trouble at Canadian border. Can somebody having the experience answer this question? Do they(officer at the boarder) ask for the proof for the price like the document from the dealer or the receipt when you wired the money?

Thanks a lot.
Jr. Member
Dec 8, 2006
177 posts
12 upvotes
YES, YOU CAN STILL BUY SUBARU's AFTER 3 Jan 08.

Do not rush into buying if you are not ready. Sales to Canadians will continue unabated after 3 Jan 08. The only thing is that you lose the incentives which are on average $1000-$1500. On a 30,000 car every 1% increase in CAN/US exchange rate equals approx. $300. So if the exchange rate goes up 5% - you get back the $1500 discount you lost. The prediction is still out there - 1 CAN$ = 1.11 USD$ sometime next year.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 26, 2006
1549 posts
50 upvotes
ON
also GST 5% instead of 6%


LoDown wrote: YES, YOU CAN STILL BUY SUBARU's AFTER 3 Jan 08.

Do not rush into buying if you are not ready. Sales to Canadians will continue unabated after 3 Jan 08. The only thing is that you lose the incentives which are on average $1000-$1500. On a 30,000 car every 1% increase in CAN/US exchange rate equals approx. $300. So if the exchange rate goes up 5% - you get back the $1500 discount you lost. The prediction is still out there - 1 CAN$ = 1.11 USD$ sometime next year.
Jr. Member
Jun 24, 2007
138 posts
LoDown wrote: YES, YOU CAN STILL BUY SUBARU's AFTER 3 Jan 08.

Do not rush into buying if you are not ready. Sales to Canadians will continue unabated after 3 Jan 08. The only thing is that you lose the incentives which are on average $1000-$1500. On a 30,000 car every 1% increase in CAN/US exchange rate equals approx. $300. So if the exchange rate goes up 5% - you get back the $1500 discount you lost. The prediction is still out there - 1 CAN$ = 1.11 USD$ sometime next year.
This is not necessarily true. Not only will you lose the incentives(not neccesarily a big deal), but the dealers are losing the incentives(definitely a big deal... that is basically the reason that we do such big discounts). From what I am reading so far, it looks like I won't be able to do the same kind of pricing after Jan 3rd. Disappointing.. > :(
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
210 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
jed wrote: Just to get things accurate here - I was in the business (GM dealer) for 13 yrs, and thats 7 yrs ago. At that time, a $2000 gross profit was not the norm, in fact, would have been wonderful if you could get it but it didn't happen much. I did not sell @ MSRP.

Canadian dealers MUCH higher markup? Perhaps markup (diff between MSRP and invoice) but again, I don't know many guys who can get MSRP in their sales. More like you're getting about a $800 to $1500 gross, depending upon the car/truck, if you're lucky. G5's - anywhere from $300 to $800 over cost.

Imagine stocking a $70000 truck (lots of them nowadays), paying interest on it while it sits waiting to sell, getting a $1500 gross, paying expenses, lights, electricity, heating, fixed costs, interest, and salesperson commission from that. Almost like computer retailers.

I'm not endearing anyone to the dealers, lets just be accurate in our discussion. GM sells more in CA than they do in all of Canada. And, I was told that the warranty costs are up to 50% higher here. Again, I'm not for the current pricing structure - I was around in 97-2000 when curbers were grabbing CDN cars/trucks/parts and shipping them South for HUGE profits.

Manufacturers got themselves into one he77 of a pickle by raising Cdn prices, so when the dollar got to parity, you know the rest.
I appreciate your input on this since that's the whole idea behind the forum discussion. I was under the impression that automobile dealers got vehicles from the manufacturer on consignment and that no actual cash changes hands until the sale completes.
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!
Jr. Member
Nov 18, 2007
122 posts
3 upvotes
Windsor
postdotcom wrote: I'm going to pick up my truck this Friday in Ohio. Already faxed the MSO. Reading from some web sites saying the Detroit US custom is difficult to find or access. Anyone had experience exporting car through Detroit? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
It is on Fort Street directly below the Ambassador Bridge. Fort is mainly used by Trucks. If you are going west, go under the bridge and about half a block west of the Bridge you will see a fenced off area that I believe says 'US Customs' or something like that - it wil be on your right (north side of the road). You enter there and follow the pack of people or ask the guard posted in a squad car which office to go into. Should only take 5 minutes. Better to go during the day, but it is open 24-7. good luck
Jr. Member
Nov 18, 2007
122 posts
3 upvotes
Windsor
LoveRFD wrote: You can get cheap steel rims from Costco. around 38 bucks each.
16" at Costco are more like 60.
Jr. Member
Jun 24, 2007
138 posts
ac328 wrote: See my post above. Warranty continues, ALL factory to dealer and salesperson incentives are DOA as of Jan 3. Apparently 50% of salesperson commission comes direct from SoA, so after Jan 3 a sale to a Canadian cuts down on her take-home pay.

Salesperson said this meant most dealers would be reluctant to sell to Canadians, so pretty much bye-bye to new sales.

PS Salesperson is Zach's colleague Rebecca Ellingsworth, very straight shooter, recommended (until Jan 3) for anyone in Western Canada. Am mulling an off from her now on the Outback 2.5 XT.
Yep... I work with Becca here. We will still sell to Canadians - we just won't be able to do the same kind of pricing after Jan 3rd.
Monsieurmaggot wrote: I appreciate your input on this since that's the whole idea behind the forum discussion. I was under the impression that automobile dealers got vehicles from the manufacturer on consignment and that no actual cash changes hands until the sale completes.
Nope... We have huge flooring costs. Basically, all the vehicles on our lot are financed.
Member
Sep 30, 2007
371 posts
72 upvotes
Toronto
eastsidesubaru wrote: This is not necessarily true. Not only will you lose the incentives(not neccesarily a big deal), but the dealers are losing the incentives(definitely a big deal... that is basically the reason that we do such big discounts). From what I am reading so far, it looks like I won't be able to do the same kind of pricing after Jan 3rd. Disappointing.. > :(
Very disappointing indeed. Thanks for clarifying Zach.

To the folks sitting on the fence, unless you're waiting for your leases to end, you might want to act now.
Jr. Member
Nov 18, 2007
122 posts
3 upvotes
Windsor
tiger_a_k wrote: I found a dealer in portland, and he will sell me a new RX350.
But the problem is that he wants full payments in 2 weeks advance.
He gave me a reference to some "happy buyers" but I still think it is risky.
Is there a method to find out if he is reliable or if he is trying scam?
you're crazy to be announcing this on here before you buy the vehicle. Lexus will put the hammer down on the dealer.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 28, 2006
1355 posts
210 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
My Subaru Insider provided me a copy of the Subaru corporate letter that went out to all the US retailers. I suspect it was a compromise to appease SCI.

Here's EXACTLY what it says (I will try to post the .pdf)

Dear Subaru Retailers;

It has come to our attention that a growing number of dealers are conducting an increasing amount of sales outside the United States. Although your dealer agreement does not expressly prohibit such activity, SOA has consistently stressed the importance of dealers concentrating on selling within their area of responsibility (AOR). This is the market area that Subaru dealers are measured against, and sales into your AOR represent the best opportunity to build a loyal owner base to fuel long term sales, service business and dealer profitability.

SOA's marketing investment is geared toward building the units in operation here in the United States to provide that opportunity for loyalty, profitability and long term growth.

Therefore, effective January 3, 2008, any vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers outside of SOA's AOR, which includes the continental U.S., are discouraged. This includes exports or sales to Canada or any other country without the express written consent of SOA.
Further, vehicle sales made by U.S. dealers to individuals or organizations residing outside of the continental United States will no longer be eligible for any Subaru of America incentive payment/programs such as vehicle incentives, ascent program payouts, quarterly/monthly dealer sales volume bonuses, Chairman's Roundtable awards, etc. Should any vehicle sales be made outside of the United States, these sales must be classified as “X” type sales in the Subaru sales reporting system.

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Sincerely,

Tomohiko Ikeda
Chairman, President, and CEO
Subaru of America, Inc.



Thomas J. Doll
Executive Vice President & CFO
Subaru of America, Inc.


The last paragraph irks me. It essentially says that while sales to Canadians will be permitted to continue, the dealer will not get any credit on the sale which essentially means the sale wouldn't be included in their monthly sales figures or incentive goals.

Essentially I'm reading that the dealership won't be motivated to sell you a car since there's very little in it for them. Is that a hammer I see dropping? The door closing? Strike while the iron is hot. The ship leaving dock? (You get my drift).

I think a letter writing campaign to Mr. Ikea and Mr. Barbie are in order.
I've been on RFDs for over a decade. My award-winning thread from 2006 is still going strong and one of the most popular on this site!
Member
Oct 31, 2007
467 posts
10 upvotes
p110232 wrote: Very disappointing indeed. Thanks for clarifying Zach.

To the folks sitting on the fence, unless you're waiting for your leases to end, you might want to act now.
I have months to go on a lease and I still did it. I figure since I will be owning the car buying it a bit early is no big deal, especially given the loss of incentives on Jan 3. For now I will still drive my lease car (a BMW X3). I was considering getting a used BMW but BMW got all arrogant, so screw them.

Even with the new SUbaru Canada incentives the car I will be getting is still about 9,000 cheaper than if bought here in Calgary (including tax). Buyers outside Alberta save even more when PST is factored in.

Sooo...here's my deal from Eastside Subaru:

2.5XT manual, with floor mats, XM radio (according to XM's website, this should work fine in Canada), rear dome light (should be standard IMHO, but whatever), and armrest extension.

Paid under invoice, but more than the dealer's price w/ dealer holdback. A fair deal.

Hopefully down the road I can find a way to have the electronic displays in metric...
Member
Oct 31, 2007
467 posts
10 upvotes
LoDown wrote: The real answer. By the time the car gets to the border it will have a good number of miles on it. You are now buying a USED car. I would say, you can even buy from your friend for $25,000. Definitely, whatever you do, do not add in the tax and other fees (tax on tax is not warranted) - trust my experience, it is not called for and is common sense. Some warning you here are simply injecting their fear into you - with no actual experience.
Are you sure about that? According to the CBSA (border services) website, the CBSA counts sales tax as part of the value on which it calculates duty. "Duty" for their purposes includes GST, and customs duties.

Put another way it uses the total price you paid, including tax, to be the value on which it assesses GST and duty (if any).

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications ... 6-eng.html

Please correct me if I am wrong.
Newbie
Jul 18, 2007
62 posts
17 upvotes
Toronto
ac328 wrote: Are you sure about that? According to the CBSA (border services) website, the CBSA counts sales tax as part of the value on which it calculates duty. "Duty" for their purposes includes GST, and customs duties.

Put another way it uses the total price you paid, including tax, to be the value on which it assesses GST and duty (if any).

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications ... 6-eng.html

Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are right ac. Duty and PST/gst are calculated on total cost including state taxes paid. That's right, a tax on a tax!
Member
Oct 31, 2007
467 posts
10 upvotes
flatman wrote: You are right ac. Duty and PST/gst are calculated on total cost including state taxes paid. That's right, a tax on a tax!
Yeah, it sucks. Other stupid examples include charging GST on the A/C excise tax (5/6% on $100, not a huge deal, but still), and charging GST on non-NAFTA duty (that can add up).

Not sure if they charge GST on the new gas guzzler taxes.
Deal Addict
Oct 25, 2005
2379 posts
340 upvotes
North Vancouver
It's wierd Subaru is the only manufacturer clearly allow warranty effective both in Canada/US.............now they have this new policy to discourage US dealer sell to Canadian
Member
User avatar
Feb 27, 2004
309 posts
14 upvotes
eastsidesubaru wrote: This is not necessarily true. Not only will you lose the incentives(not neccesarily a big deal), but the dealers are losing the incentives(definitely a big deal... that is basically the reason that we do such big discounts). From what I am reading so far, it looks like I won't be able to do the same kind of pricing after Jan 3rd. Disappointing.. > :(
Can you give us an idea as to how much this affects pricing, either in dollars or % terms? I was under the impression there were no cash rebates in effect for the 08 Tribecas anyways.
You'll go broke saving money here....
Member
Oct 31, 2007
467 posts
10 upvotes
orion747 wrote: Can you give us an idea as to how much this affects pricing, either in dollars or % terms? I was under the impression there were no cash rebates in effect for the 08 Tribecas anyways.
Why don't you try Car Cost Canada?

For the US prices I subscribed to Consumer Reports' New Car Buying Kit, gives you a good idea of invoices and dealer holdbacks.
Newbie
Nov 3, 2007
90 posts
p110232 wrote: I agree. Thanks for the reminder.

Re: the A4, it's a nice car with a great interior. How do you plan on getting one from the States? The new MB C300 is also worth a second look.

I got someone in Illinois that could get it. Problem is that i'd have to pay their tax, plus duty, plus gst/pst. But still worth it if i save a combined 15K+

I've looked at the new C300 and drove one, wow, very nice indeed, in my opinion it is a better value purchase than the BMW, might still not drive like a BMW, but the styling, and inside of the C300 are better than that of the BMW IMO. It feels like you get a ton of standard features that youd' have to pay extra for in the BMW.

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