Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Newbie
Dec 4, 2007
4 posts
Anyone here buy a frontier from the states? I am looking for a 05 or 06 model, 4x4 crew cab. Is there duty charge on nissan trucks, I think they are built in the US?

Can they be imported into Canada? i am looking to save about 10K
Also any dealers that see to Canadians not too far from the border? Closest maybe?

thanks,
Philip
Newbie
Oct 11, 2007
64 posts
4 upvotes
Manitoba
[QUOTE]Dano - dealers can sell cars at or below what they paid for the vehicle and still make a profit. It at first sounds a bit funny, but the manufacturer will actually give the dealership some sort of cash after they sell the vehicle; this cash comes under a number of different plans (the "holdback" is a common one) for various reasons probably only known to those inside the business, but does come directly from the manufacturer. Thus a vehicle with an invoice price of 22k could be sold for 20k and could still be a profit to the dealership so long as the manufacturer gives the dealership back at least 2k+ dollars. It appears that SoA is cancelling these programs for sales that are made to Canadians - thus selling a 22k car for 20k is a net loss to the dealership. Continuing with the example, our 22k car lists as 23k (MSRP), but is selling at 20k right now because the manufacture is giving (again, for example) 3k to the dealer - the dealer is thus pocketing $1000 per vehicle. If the cash from the manufacturer is removed, in order to continue to make $1000 per vehicle, the dealer must now charge MSRP....[/QUOTE]

I understand that the hold-back allows the dealer to charge lower than invoice.

But I was under the impression that Invoice was the actual dealer cost without any rebates, and would be the cost the dealer pays when selling to Canucks. This would result in a price somthing close to MSRP, but I still don't understand how you need to go above MSRP to make it worthwhile.

If this assumption is false, then maybe "Invoice" is just another fictitous feel-good number from the Mfr.

PS: Without know these facts, it's baseless to accuse the sales rep of gouging. In fact, making that accusation could offend them and prevent them from being open about the price mechanism.
Member
Oct 31, 2007
467 posts
10 upvotes
zircon wrote: Hi: I don't know whether to jump or not. Was going to wait a year to buy (I have a 04 TSX which is very good) but have banked US$ and don't like the looks of dealers forced not to sell to Canadians.

I am interested in an 08 Legacy GT Limited Sedan, with navigation, arm rest extender and XM. Anyone buy one of these? Price? Problems with these cars?
thanks. I would do it before new years to keep the incentives in place.
Here's my take on the Legacy. I was debating between an '08 Legacy and an Outback myself (and an Infiniti G35), and I have now put down a deposit on an '08 Outback 2.5XT turbo 5 spd. manual. The following is based on test drives here in Calgary, plus lots (and lots) of internet research.

Pros:
- Fantastic all wheel drive system, much more sophisticated than the one in my BMW X3
- Average reliability according to Consumer Reports (Outback is above average)
- Very fast acceleration, especially with 5MT
- Quiet on the road
- Great handling
- Very high quality interior (better than my current X3 in many respects)
- Folding back seat
- Bigger brakes than the Outback
- Top rated in crash tests (IIHS and NHTSA)
- Made in NA, so no duty

Cons:
- Drinks a lot of gas from what I've read, especially in the city, and premium only
- Lacks some high-end features (Bluetooth, HID headlamps, e.g.)
- Smallish trunk on the sedan
- Odometer, trip computer, climate control don't display metric (the G35 can display metric via changing the in car computer)

I went with the Outback even though it costs about $2k more because of the cargo room and flexibility, plus it has a much bigger sunroof, and you can get VDC (stability control) with a manual trans. on the Outback, whereas oddly you can't on the Legacy.

I personally would avoid the Nav system, I played with the stock one on my test drive and it is a really average system, and not cheap either at $2k. I bought a Garmin Nuvi 650 from Costco for $350 + GST and it is much better than the stock Subie system, pronounces street names and has a 3D view...

Also you should be able to pick a GT up at 27-28k out the door (before GST), a downright steal compared to an Accord or Camry...I estimate I saved about 9k even with Subaru's new $8k incentive in Canada.
Member
Oct 31, 2007
467 posts
10 upvotes
Can anyone who has bought a car in Seattle and driven it back to Calgary please let me know which route you took and what your experiences were like.

I am looking at either crossing via:

1) Blaine WA and coming back via the Rockies (not the safest drive in winter); however the SUbaru dealer can email copies of the documents there apparently making the export process painless. However according to the US CBP website it's only open 8 to 3:30 on weekdays?

OR

2) Eastport ID, meaning I can avoid the Rockies; however the crossing is quite strict on receiving faxes and apparently require a signed MSO front and back? However it appears the export office is open 24/7.

Any help would be much appreciated...
Jr. Member
Nov 18, 2007
122 posts
3 upvotes
Windsor
AC...you're a man after my own heart. My tsx is a 6-speed manual. Great car. However, my son just got his licence and doesn't drive a stick. I also looked at the Infiniti G35X and can buy one within 15 miles of where I live in Ontario - I have already talked with the dealer, but I read online accounts where some people reported mileage like 10-13 mpg in the city! On premium. Brutal. Plus my kid and 308 HP probably are not a good combination. So it is off the list. Was offered a Legacy like I listed for 30,300 without negotiating. Never considered the Outback. I am not into a wagon, otherwise your Outback would be my top choice. Basically same car as the Legacy GT.
Sr. Member
Feb 12, 2006
679 posts
75 upvotes
ac328 wrote: Can anyone who has bought a car in Seattle and driven it back to Calgary please let me know which route you took and what your experiences were like.

I am looking at either crossing via:

1) Blaine WA and coming back via the Rockies (not the safest drive in winter); however the SUbaru dealer can email copies of the documents there apparently making the export process painless. However according to the US CBP website it's only open 8 to 3:30 on weekdays?

OR

2) Eastport ID, meaning I can avoid the Rockies; however the crossing is quite strict on receiving faxes and apparently require a signed MSO front and back? However it appears the export office is open 24/7.

Any help would be much appreciated...
If you are coming through BC (Lower Mainland) I wouldn't cross Blaine border that'll add extra 2 hours to drive back to Calgary. Cross Sumas (Abbotsford) or Lynden (Aldergrove) border which will put you in Abbotsford. Sumas border is like 2 km from Hwy 1.
Sr. Member
Jul 23, 2007
852 posts
7 upvotes
ecgz88 wrote: It's wierd Subaru is the only manufacturer clearly allow warranty effective both in Canada/US.............now they have this new policy to discourage US dealer sell to Canadian
Think Subaru was one of the only ones to willingly sell to Cdn's but I wouldn't say that their warranty offer was anything special. You had to pay for it up front and wait weeks or possibly months for re-imbursement. Lexus has no issues doing warranty work on either side of the border and you get road side assistance.
Deal Addict
Feb 7, 2006
2750 posts
1270 upvotes
[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Pilsie
Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by st7860
+1[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]st7860, you made me seriously questioning where you come from. First you attacked Xan from Manchester, now you're joining Pilsie to attack Zach. Are you going to attack Karl as well? What is your problem?[/QUOTE]

Wow, first one dealer is banned and now we are trying to piss off another. Pilsie, pretty harsh. Possibly PM the guy and he might answer your questions.
st7860, I had some spare time and read your 44 contributions to this thread (yes I have too much spare time :cheesygri ). The single biggest being:
[QUOTE]
i hereby and solemnly declare that this is the 10,000th post in this thread.

furthermore, happy birthday to the thread

lastly, lets all get at least one US car and stick it to the manufacturers.[/QUOTE]

The wierd thing is you seem to have gone to some effort to get the 10000 post. Have you imported a car? Or are you hanging around here offering amazing quotes like:
  • if you want to spread knowledge of car importing from the USA to a more wide audience, someone will have to create a facebook group for it.
  • "Post the hot deals you find here! This forum is not for private sales or self promotion."
  • I hereby and solemnly declare, +1
  • and furthermore, RBSX shouldn't be coming on here and charging for doing anything.
  • many leasing companies will buy a car from you then lease it back to you.
  • i'd rather buy a made in the US car and save a lot. I doubt those Buy Canada Shills buy all Made in Canada Organic vegetables and livestock. lol.
  • except for possible warranty issues, why does it matter where you buy it from?
  • don't feel sorry for the canadian car dealers, thats their problem.
  • perhaps if they had a reputation for sterling service with happiness, ethics, on time reliable repairs, polite sales staff, etc, people wouldn't mind paying a little bit more buying a car in Canada.
  • some people just refuse to search thats all, and whine that reading is hard.
  • i think most people here write at the sub-college level for online purposes, so I dont think its that difficult to read and understand most people's posts.
  • i think he's shilling for a car dealer
  • give what?
  • toyota canada would probably say some nonsense about the local market demands. but then in the US, the toyota prius hybrid has a waiting list, but yet, toyota still sells it for $22,000US, and here, the same car without a waiting list costs $32,000CAD
  • the duty is around 6.5% if the car was not made in Canada or the USA.
Deal Addict
Jun 15, 2003
1892 posts
222 upvotes
fugazi11 wrote: Think Subaru was one of the only ones to willingly sell to Cdn's but I wouldn't say that their warranty offer was anything special. You had to pay for it up front and wait weeks or possibly months for re-imbursement. Lexus has no issues doing warranty work on either side of the border and you get road side assistance.
If I remember correctly, someone reported on this thread that he received re-imbursement from SoA in about 2 weeks. Not bad IMO...
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jul 24, 2007
545 posts
1 upvote
Tender wrote:

-1.

st7860, you made me seriously questioning where you come from. First you attacked Xan from Manchester, now you're joining Pilsie to attack Zach. Are you going to attack Karl as well? What is your problem?
These people attacking Zach and Xan, have they offered any savings at all? Not even a cent to the numerous new car owners that Zach and Xan have helped saved tens of thousands of dollars. And here are these people accusing them of being gougers and self-promoters. What have you guys done to help save some of the members here? These idiots must be nothing else but bitter Canadian Subaru salespeople who couldn't sell to smart Canadians car buyers.
Member
Jun 2, 2003
296 posts
3 upvotes
North York
zircon wrote: Was offered a Legacy like I listed for 30,300 without negotiating.
~$30k? that's not turbo?

Anyway... I really wonder how negiotable is local Subaru dealer about selling below MSRP now...given
the extra cash incentive from Subaru of Canada
Newbie
User avatar
Oct 20, 2007
6 posts
diigii wrote: These people attacking Zach and Xan, have they offered any savings at all? Not even a cent to the numerous new car owners that Zach and Xan have helped saved tens of thousands of dollars. And here are these people accusing them of being gougers and self-promoters. What have you guys done to help save some of the members here? These idiots must be nothing else but bitter Canadian Subaru salespeople who couldn't sell to smart Canadians car buyers.
my take exactly..bitter cdn car dealers
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jun 9, 2003
24699 posts
1833 upvotes
Markham, ON
etam wrote: ~$30k? that's not turbo?

Anyway... I really wonder how negiotable is local Subaru dealer about selling below MSRP now...given
the extra cash incentive from Subaru of Canada
with turbo...non turbos limited in the states go for ~23K (Outback 2.5i 25k)

in canada it's diff...i dont care about the price
Jr. Member
Nov 18, 2007
122 posts
3 upvotes
Windsor
no, the Legacy GT Limited is a Turbo 2.5L with 5 speed auto. It is loaded except for HIDs and bluetooth (my wife likes hers, but I never use my cell). Why Subie doesn't offer HIDs on these cars is a mystery. They offer HIDs on Tribeca in Canada but not USA. Still not worth price difference.
Newbie
Oct 31, 2007
67 posts
Tender wrote:

-1.

st7860, you made me seriously questioning where you come from. First you attacked Xan from Manchester, now you're joining Pilsie to attack Zach. Are you going to attack Karl as well? What is your problem?
st and Pilsie don't appear to come here to seek for help or to provide help. I doubt if they are on Canadian consumers side if they are not some undercover agent to try to cause confusions here.
Compare car prices between U.S. and Canada at www.ATaleofTwoPrices.com
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 7, 2002
1009 posts
247 upvotes
I'm not condoning the attacks on the dealers that have helped us all get our new vehicles, but I'm also hesitant to give these car dealers so much credit for saving us tons of money.

These dealers have nothing to do with the thousands of dollars that we're saving from buying from the US. Think about it, they aren't doing anything special to get us an even better deal than their MSRP and regular incentives that they have - since US prices are generally lower, they are actually making more money off Canadians since they know that we're already saving tons of money. So with this knowledge, they are able to charge more than what they would have sold it to a regular US citizen and in typical Canadian fashion, we're "okay" with that. I think that they are making tons of money off of us, but hey, that's okay because those Canadians are already saving thousands just because of how the US/CDA market has priced itself. Dealers that are able to sell to Canadians are just capitalizing off this fact.

Aside from arranging all of the necessary paperwork for export/importation of your vehicle, what else has your dealer done to earn your business?

Some dealers have helped to demystify the entire process, but as a salesperson and even business owner, I'd expect this of them especially if they want my business. If I know that there is a market out there across the border who is used to paying higher prices and all I need to do is figure out how to sell to them by trying to eliminate all of the paperwork, all I need to do is just figure out how to do it once and replicate the process - and bang... there's tons of sales knocking on your door.

So before we hold all of these dealers in such high esteem for saving us tons of dollars, I wanted to share my thoughts that in my opinion that yes many of us have saved tons of money, but I would not attribute it to the dealers/salespeople doing anything special.

All of this praise should be given to all of the people who have shared info on this board and especially Monsieurmaggot who started this thread.
Member
Sep 30, 2007
369 posts
72 upvotes
Toronto
diigii wrote: These people attacking Zach and Xan, have they offered any savings at all? Not even a cent to the numerous new car owners that Zach and Xan have helped saved tens of thousands of dollars. And here are these people accusing them of being gougers and self-promoters. What have you guys done to help save some of the members here? These idiots must be nothing else but bitter Canadian Subaru salespeople who couldn't sell to smart Canadians car buyers.
BUSTED!

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Deal Addict
User avatar
Apr 29, 2001
4799 posts
40 upvotes
Toronto
eipod wrote: my take exactly..bitter cdn car dealers
Or bitter CDN customers who got brainwash and gouge by their CDN dealership. Only if they read RFD earlier, they could have save a tonne.

Now they're trying to validate their overprice purchase by blaming others for their misfortune.
Mark77 wrote: That's not very nice....and you're missing out on a lot of valuable knowledge if you ignore me. Your loss.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 7, 2002
1009 posts
247 upvotes
For all those who have purchased a Subaru, I understand that there is Roadside assistance included within the warranty period. Has anyone already needed to use it (I hope not)...? Regardless, has anyone tried to dial the number that was provided? Is it a long distance number or 1-800 number? Who do they send? Is it CAA?

I'm contemplating on purchasing extended warranty, but if the roadside assistance isn't good in Canada (ie. I can't reach anyone), then it lessens the value of the extended warranty.
Deal Addict
Jun 15, 2003
1892 posts
222 upvotes
Bincent wrote: I'm not condoning the attacks on the dealers that have helped us all get our new vehicles, but I'm also hesitant to give these car dealers so much credit for saving us tons of money.

These dealers have nothing to do with the thousands of dollars that we're saving from buying from the US. Think about it, they aren't doing anything special to get us an even better deal than their MSRP and regular incentives that they have - since US prices are generally lower, they are actually making more money off Canadians since they know that we're already saving tons of money. So with this knowledge, they are able to charge more than what they would have sold it to a regular US citizen and in typical Canadian fashion, we're "okay" with that. I think that they are making tons of money off of us, but hey, that's okay because those Canadians are already saving thousands just because of how the US/CDA market has priced itself. Dealers that are able to sell to Canadians are just capitalizing off this fact.

Aside from arranging all of the necessary paperwork for export/importation of your vehicle, what else has your dealer done to earn your business?

Some dealers have helped to demystify the entire process, but as a salesperson and even business owner, I'd expect this of them especially if they want my business. If I know that there is a market out there across the border who is used to paying higher prices and all I need to do is figure out how to sell to them by trying to eliminate all of the paperwork, all I need to do is just figure out how to do it once and replicate the process - and bang... there's tons of sales knocking on your door.

So before we hold all of these dealers in such high esteem for saving us tons of dollars, I wanted to share my thoughts that in my opinion that yes many of us have saved tons of money, but I would not attribute it to the dealers/salespeople doing anything special.
Agreed.

Hmmm...I wonder if an US citizen would be paying the same price as us Canadians at a US dealer near the border?

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