Ongoing Deal Discussion

[Always] WOW ---- New and used cars from US up to 30% cheaper - Read post #1

Poll: Are Canadian cars overpriced

  • Total votes: 335. You have voted on this poll.
I have no voice, Canadian Dealers/Manufacturers are taking advantage of the Canadian consumer
 
112
33%
In most cases, new cars purchased in the US are almost always thousands cheaper
 
149
44%
I owe no one a living, competition is good. Thank you NAFTA!
 
61
18%
With the exchange rate factored in, Canadian prices are roughly the same
 
6
2%
With the exchange rate and financing, Canadian prices are cheaper - Buy Canadian!
 
7
2%

Poll ended at Dec 28th, 2006 1:46 pm

Deal Addict
Aug 31, 2006
2947 posts
663 upvotes
"You could win up to $10,000 towards your purchase or lease or win a GM vehicle + up to $5000 in cash incentives on selected models + a 1% GST reduction on your purchase"

So everyone has a 1:1 chance of winning a minimum of $1000 so really the 1% GST reduction and the $1000 is all all you get in terms of rebates because when it comes to the "upto $5000 in cash incentives", well here's the list of ineligible vehicles.

Ineligible vehicles include:
Vibe 07/08,
Solstice 07/08;
08 Aveo/Wave(LS/LT),
07 Aveo/Wave Sedan/5 Door ( in Alberta, Prairies, Atlantic, Ontario, Quebec),
08 Cobalt LS/G5 Base,
08 Malibu LS/1LT/2LT/LTZ/Hybrid,
07 Optra 5 LT/LS/Optra Wagon LS/LT (in Ontario),
07 Cobalt LS/G5 Base ( in Ontario),
08 Lucerne,
08 CTS,
07/08 HHR,
07 Rendezvous,
08 Equinox/Torrent,
07TrailBlazer/Envoy(2WD)Reg,
07 TrailBlazer/Envoy/Rainier (4WD/AWD) Reg,
08 TrailBlazer/Envoy,
07/08 Acadia,
08 Buick Enclave,
07/08 GH Vans Passenger, (not that I want one but what's a GH van???)
07/08 GH Vans Cargo/Cutaway,
07 Silverado Sierra GMT800/1500/Reg 1SZ,
08 Silverado/Sierra GMT 900 LD,
08 Avalanche, GMT 560 2
05/06/07 MY,
08 GMT 560 Family;
Saturn: 07/08 Aura XE/XR,
07/08 Sky,
08 Astra,
07/08 Outlook 2WD/4WD,
07 Vue 4Cyl/6Cyl,
08 Vue XE/XR/Redline.

What's left???? I'd actually consider an Astra (finally a car that's not designed by GM North America) if it was reasonably priced ... useless morons running around at GM's Sales/marketing divisions!! :confused:
Deal Addict
Jun 15, 2003
1892 posts
222 upvotes
zircon wrote: Infiniti dealer I spoke with in Michigan said they would take it to the border, thus no sales tax in the state. I think Subie dealers do the same thing.
Thanks for the info. I'll be in touch with a Subaru dealer tomorrow.


Would you be able to elaborate the process...ie when & how will payment be made? What if something happens to the car on the way to the border? Thanks
Newbie
Nov 16, 2007
24 posts
Lake Country, BC
To mdbuffy,

Thanks for all your excellent information. Things are pretty crazy here but once I get a moment or two I'll be firing off some more letters to the government contacts you listed to:

1. Take recall letters out of the hands of the manufacturers, as any fool can see they're either refusing to issue them out of spite or trying to rip Canadians off yet again by selling them for huge prices. Who do they think they are? They're continually acting like we owe them something, when it's a fact that it's the other way around. Once they start to understand this I think we'll all get along much better.

2. Contest the role of auto manufacturers in making unsubstantiated claims to TC about the admissibility of their products into Canada, and request a competent, independent, accountable, and impartial auditor (i.e. NOT a hired gun for the automotive industry) to evaluate their claims.

Manufacturers are clearly in a conflict of interest - they make decisions about whether their products belong on Canadian roads, and at the same time they decide how much we're going to pay for their products. Any regulatory body that doesn't see a conflict doesn't deserve to be a regulatory body! There's been some discussion here about the tricks that the auto manufacturers may be pulling next, like saying certain vehicles cannot possibly have immobilizers installed to keep them out of Canada. I think we should beat them to the punch by taking away their uncontested authority.

3. Investigate international price fixing & antitrust activities of automobile manufacturers. When American companies prevent US dealers from selling to Canadians, or when American/Canadian dealers deny warranty coverage to Canadian owners of US-purchased vehicles there's obviously a problem. Especially when there's some legal precedent already in place to say denying warranty coverage is illegal (BC Supreme Court - Toyota Canada Inc. v. Lipetz, 1998 CanLII 4473).

I don't believe the companies that continue to honour warranties do so out of the goodness of their hearts- I would say it's because they've already been through the courts for warranty 'issues' of their own in the past and lost. With respect to Canadian and American dealers restricting access, we're supposed to have very powerful mechanisms already in place under NAFTA to investigate and eliminate these types of behaviour. It has been said we need to shine a light on those in government who are responsible to get them to stand up for Canadian consumers, and I agree that we need to do just that.


We've made it this far folks, and we can't stop now! Congratulations to those who have gone through the trouble to get their vehicles. It just shouldn't be so difficult to do it, and you shouldn't be made to feel like a criminal for standing up for yourself & your rights as an already heavily-taxed taxpayer. If you could, please send off one or two more letters for us in support of consumers, so we can make sure the corporations don't slam the door on everyone.
Jr. Member
Jul 13, 2007
131 posts
38 upvotes
I have a Legacy 5MT LGT and think it's a great car. I don't need a Nav system and have read on some Subie forums that the Subie system is only so-so at best. The only extras I got were mudguards & rubber mats. I wanted a manual transmission but if I had wanted an auto trannny, I would go with the 3.0 R model. The auto version of the LGT is supposed to be noticebly less responsive than the 5MT. The 3.0R version has the sportier shocks, 18" wheels & Nav system. Go for it!

QUOTE=bluemule999;6045358]I have a black 08 Legacy GT Limited Sedan, without navigation & XM. Wonderful car. Fantastic car and especially at the current price. Do not wait![/QUOTE]
Newbie
Oct 3, 2007
82 posts
Toronto
EL820 wrote: Hmmm...this definately complicates things. If I have to pay the 6% Michigan tax, I will definately not purchase from that State.

If the dealer agrees to drive the vehicle across the border, are you required to make full payment before you see the vehicle? What if something happens on the way to the border? Who will be responsible?

PM'd you.
Ask your dealer or do the research yourself if you can get temporary MI plates under your name without paying the tax. The convincing point is that the law requires to move the vehicle out of state but you can drive the vehicle as soon as you leave the state border. If this works then you will have some options, just be creative.
Newbie
Oct 1, 2007
31 posts
Toronto
EL820 wrote: Anyone purchased a vehicle from Michigan State? Did you have to pay the 6% State tax? If so, were you able to successfully receive a refund from Michigan Treasury?

The Detriot Ambassador crossing is 24/7, which means I can import it on a Saturday.

Thanks in advance.
I bought in OH and didn't have to pay the sales tax.

Detroit
Name: Fort Street Cargo Facility
Phone: (313) 226-3139
Fax: (313) 226-5347
Operational Hours: Twenty Four (24) Hours A Day
Seven Days A Week (7)
I would call to make sure... Good Luck!
Member
User avatar
Jan 2, 2007
306 posts
3 upvotes
EL820 wrote: Hmmm...this definately complicates things. If I have to pay the 6% Michigan tax, I will definately not purchase from that State.
Depends on what car you want to buy. If you want to buy a new Honda / Acura, you will definitely need to pay Michigan sales tax. I don't think there is a single dealership in America that will sell a new Honda or Acura to a Canadian if it will be directly exported (ie to evade state taxes). I think the same can be said for Lexus -- no new car sales to Canadians. Not sure about the other makes.

I plan on looking at importing a G37 coupe (6MT) when the weather gets better in 2008. I hope they will still allow direct-to-Canadian sales, along with honouring the warranty in Canada. I don't mind taking the car to the US since I live very close to the border. Perhaps as the CAD$ drops lower to US$0.95, the C$3k cash incentive ... it might be economically feasible to just buy it locally ... then again ... it'll still be overpriced in Canada but not that bad. I'll see how generous I'll be in March ... the headaches spared not having to cross the Detroit-Windsor border might be worth it. I've already imported 2 cars in the past year ... I'm getting tired. ;)
Sr. Member
Oct 8, 2002
618 posts
19 upvotes
Mississauga
Wow, looks like SOA is definitely trying to help SOC by trying to limit the amount of cars bought by Cnds.. oh well, I think we all knew the party wouldn't last for long. :)

Drove my 08 Outback 2.5i over the last two days from Manchester. Dealt with Jack, awesome guy, he made the process easy and painless, we wanted a manual/silver right away and he got it for us the next day.

The car is great, you do get a "lot of car" for the price we paid. :D
Member
Dec 30, 2006
283 posts
203 upvotes
Oakville
[I posted this in the Tribeca thread, but seems like most people following this thread, so thought I'd post here too.]

FYI to those who bought the USA Tribeca.

I emailed Budd's Subaru in Oakville. The service advisor was very helpful. He looked into the HID conversion for me. SOunds like he can get the Subaru HID Kit for around $400 and install it for $200 plus taxes.

This might be a safer way to get the HID conversion done versus aftermarket. It is more expensive, but if it's the same HID system as in the Canadian Tribecas, I'd pay more to use something designed for my Tribeca than an aftermarket unknown installation.

I don't work for them by the way. I got my Tribeca from Multiline (paid more for it I'm sure than buying it myself, but didn't want the PITA factor of importing it myself - although it doesn't sound like anyone found the process difficult!).

Hope this helps someone. The HID thing was a hangup for me... stupid little thing I know, but I really like those HID lights. Promised myself I'd get them with my next car.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Nov 28, 2007
3115 posts
1010 upvotes
Whitehorse, YT
mangoman wrote: "You could win up to $10,000 towards your purchase or lease or win a GM vehicle + up to $5000 in cash incentives on selected models + a 1% GST reduction on your purchase"

So everyone has a 1:1 chance of winning a minimum of $1000 so really the 1% GST reduction and the $1000 is all all you get in terms of rebates because when it comes to the "upto $5000 in cash incentives", well here's the list of ineligible vehicles.
I might be missing the point. I thought the Wish and Win contest gave a credit ($1,000 min.) towards any GM vehicle on the lot. It seems to be a contest to get you into the showroom, win at least $1,000 then be shown the available vehicles against which you can credit your winnings - on top of any other incentives.
Sr. Member
Apr 24, 2006
924 posts
3 upvotes
Any vehicle on the lot, except for the long list of ineligible vehicles.
Newbie
Dec 3, 2007
4 posts
[quote="J233" post_id="6044395" time="1196893260" user_id="119185"]I crossed last Saturday in Detroit. Try to be there before it gets dark
Jr. Member
Jun 24, 2007
138 posts
Trexim wrote: No disrespect, Zach, but honestly, if that's the Outback 2.5i price, I'd rather buy the Accord here in Canada instead.

Gouged buy Honda Canada or gouged by Subaru of America ... same crap, pick your poison ...

I understand but I am simply being honest here about what the effect will be... as people think that it is just the rebate going away.. If it were just the rebate it would not be a big deal. But it is more.. it means the whole pricing strategy has to be re-adjusted.
Jr. Member
Jun 24, 2007
138 posts
Pilsie wrote: Eastside..
You have always been upfront and eager to make sales to Canadians.. why the sudden cloak and dagger response "long story"..
It sounds like maybe you are not giving the best deal possible currently?
Just curious if you are offering the refund of the SAF - Subaru Advertising Fund? I know it is about $500 car?
I still would love to hear why you would have to charge over MSRP.. sounds like you are preparing to gouge us CDN's or you already have been..
What the heck are you talking about...
SAF? I don't think you know what that is :cheesygri SAF reimburses a portion of dealership's advertising costs... There is no "500 a car"... I offer really good pricing on all my cars, you are welcome to contact me to get a price quote :cheesygri As to future pricing, maybe it will be at MSRP or maybe a bit under or maybe a bit over. But without the salesperson cash and with all the other incentives gone, I highly doubt any cars will be sold at invoice to Canada after Jan 3rd...
Jr. Member
Feb 16, 2004
177 posts
10 upvotes
Marzipan wrote: I might be missing the point. I thought the Wish and Win contest gave a credit ($1,000 min.) towards any GM vehicle on the lot. It seems to be a contest to get you into the showroom, win at least $1,000 then be shown the available vehicles against which you can credit your winnings - on top of any other incentives.
The wish and win is for any car -- the exclusion list is additional incentives.
And I believe the wish and win applies to in stock or stock they can get their hands on quickly since you have to take delivery before the end of the event.
(so dealer to dealer trades will work but you wont have time to order new from the factory)
I was quoted $1000 off a SaturnOutlook - too bad I can get $18000 off a slightly used 07.
Deal Addict
Apr 14, 2004
1191 posts
175 upvotes
Montreal
davehender wrote: To mdbuffy,

Thanks for all your excellent information. Things are pretty crazy here but once I get a moment or two I'll be firing off some more letters to the government contacts you listed to:

1. Take recall letters out of the hands of the manufacturers, as any fool can see they're either refusing to issue them out of spite or trying to rip Canadians off yet again by selling them for huge prices. Who do they think they are? They're continually acting like we owe them something, when it's a fact that it's the other way around. Once they start to understand this I think we'll all get along much better.

2. Contest the role of auto manufacturers in making unsubstantiated claims to TC about the admissibility of their products into Canada, and request a competent, independent, accountable, and impartial auditor (i.e. NOT a hired gun for the automotive industry) to evaluate their claims.

Manufacturers are clearly in a conflict of interest - they make decisions about whether their products belong on Canadian roads, and at the same time they decide how much we're going to pay for their products. Any regulatory body that doesn't see a conflict doesn't deserve to be a regulatory body! There's been some discussion here about the tricks that the auto manufacturers may be pulling next, like saying certain vehicles cannot possibly have immobilizers installed to keep them out of Canada. I think we should beat them to the punch by taking away their uncontested authority.

3. Investigate international price fixing & antitrust activities of automobile manufacturers. When American companies prevent US dealers from selling to Canadians, or when American/Canadian dealers deny warranty coverage to Canadian owners of US-purchased vehicles there's obviously a problem. Especially when there's some legal precedent already in place to say denying warranty coverage is illegal (BC Supreme Court - Toyota Canada Inc. v. Lipetz, 1998 CanLII 4473).

I don't believe the companies that continue to honour warranties do so out of the goodness of their hearts- I would say it's because they've already been through the courts for warranty 'issues' of their own in the past and lost. With respect to Canadian and American dealers restricting access, we're supposed to have very powerful mechanisms already in place under NAFTA to investigate and eliminate these types of behaviour. It has been said we need to shine a light on those in government who are responsible to get them to stand up for Canadian consumers, and I agree that we need to do just that.


We've made it this far folks, and we can't stop now! Congratulations to those who have gone through the trouble to get their vehicles. It just shouldn't be so difficult to do it, and you shouldn't be made to feel like a criminal for standing up for yourself & your rights as an already heavily-taxed taxpayer. If you could, please send off one or two more letters for us in support of consumers, so we can make sure the corporations don't slam the door on everyone.
From what I understand, in the Canada Inc. v. Lipetz case, Toyota lost because of the ambuguity in the wording of the contract. The wording simply mentioned Toyota (not Toyota Canada or Toyota USA). In Canada (or at least in Quebec), in a court of law, ambiguous clauses go against the person who drafted it.
Deal Addict
Feb 14, 2003
1991 posts
66 upvotes
GTA
Canadians buy U.S. cars at record rate
Number almost tripled from November 2006

Tony Van Alphen
http://www.wheels.ca/article/46942

Business Reporter

Dec 06, 2007

The rush of Canadians importing cheaper new and used autos from the United States has turned into a stampede.

Canadians' purchases of autos in the U.S. almost tripled to a record 30,002 cars and trucks in November from the same period last year, statistics from Canada's Registrar of Imported Vehicles program showed yesterday.

Analysts say the strong Canadian dollar and thousands of dollars in more savings at dealers south of the border spurred the huge increase in sales.

"It's certainly escalating," said Carlos Gomes, senior economist and auto industry specialist at Scotiabank Group.

"It tells you that people were continuing to go to the U.S. for good deals rather than buy in Canada," Gomes added.

However Gomes said he expects the volume to ease off this month because of the quick decline of the dollar to just below parity with the U.S. greenback in recent days.

Statistics from the registrar, a program Ottawa set up in 1995, indicated the number of imports in November smashed the previous record of 24,873 in October.

The numbers show increasing levels almost every month this year as the dollar rose and consumers became more aware of significant savings on transaction prices south of the border despite red tape and other restrictions.

Until the late spring of last year, the Registrar of Imported Vehicles program had never recorded a month with more than 10,000 auto imports from the U.S.

The statistics also show used autos account for a majority of the imports but the percentage of new vehicles has climbed to 22 per cent of the total from 11 per cent during the last two years.

Analysts say the increase in imports was a factor in a 5 per cent decline in new auto sales by Canadian dealers during November.

The increasing number of imports this fall and soaring dollar prompted Canadian automakers to introduce the biggest package of incentives in their history last month.

Chrysler has already indicated it will sweeten its package of incentives even more to keep consumers buying in Canada.

Other automakers will likely follow with more incentives, analysts say.

Automakers in Canada have been reluctant to cut their suggested retail prices because of the potential negative impact on the prices of used vehicles and on residual values at the end of leases.

The registrar program, which is now operated by Livingston International Inc., a private customs broker, is now receiving more than 7,000 calls a day on how to properly import vehicles into Canada.
Deal Addict
Aug 31, 2006
2947 posts
663 upvotes
allknowing wrote: The wish and win is for any car -- the exclusion list is additional incentives.
And I believe the wish and win applies to in stock or stock they can get their hands on quickly since you have to take delivery before the end of the event.
(so dealer to dealer trades will work but you wont have time to order new from the factory)
I was quoted $1000 off a SaturnOutlook - too bad I can get $18000 off a slightly used 07.
Correct - the $1000 "award" prize is on every vehicle after tax (unless you happen to win $20,000 then it's not every vehicle). The cash incentives are applied after that and only on cars that aren't on that ineligible list. And get this for the prizes you may have to factory order in order to get the prize which could mean that vehicles on the lot wouldn't count!!???

Contest closes January 10, 2008. Credit Awards are tax inclusive and can only be applied to the purchase or lease of new 2007 and 2008 GM vehicles delivered from dealer stock on or after November 8th and on or before January 10, 2008. Credit Awards exclude GM Medium Duty Trucks. The following 2008 MY vehicles are eligible for the application of $20,000 Vehicle Awards (inclusive of the $1,000 base award): Chevrolet Cobalt LT Sedan / Coupe (1AL69/37 1SA - no adds), Pontiac G5 SE Sedan / Coupe (2AL69/37 1SA - no adds), Saturn Astra XE 5-Door (ZAR48 1SA - no adds). Factory order may be required for Vehicle Awards.
Sr. Member
Mar 14, 2005
879 posts
77 upvotes
More GM smoke and mirrors on the $20,000 prize. You need to factory order the cars from that short list - which cost GM $10,000 to build.
Forget about applying the $20,000 towards that Z06 Corvette.
Deal Addict
Jun 15, 2003
1892 posts
222 upvotes
inspire wrote: ... the headaches spared not having to cross the Detroit-Windsor border might be worth it. I've already imported 2 cars in the past year ... I'm getting tired. ;)
Is it that stressful to cross the Detroit/Windsor border? Knowing you'll save thou$and$ will not ease the pain enough to go through the process again? :lol:

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