Off Topic

Are you back to work?

  • Last Updated:
  • Jun 17th, 2020 11:39 pm

Poll: What's your COVID situation?

  • Total votes: 127. You have voted on this poll.
Working - no change (essential)
 
36
28%
Working - work from home
 
59
46%
Back to work - regular schedule
 
11
9%
Back to work - limited schedule
 
8
6%
Back to work - work from home
 
2
2%
No work - CERB
 
4
3%
No work - EI
 
4
3%
No work - no support
 
3
2%
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 13, 2014
4154 posts
1610 upvotes
Parry Sound
kevindurant1 wrote: Under true socialism. The state is the people.

You are confusing "state socialism" with dictartorship(ie. North Korea).

Our military and police is considered "state socialism". That is the true definition of it. NK is just a dictatorship. It's an authoratarian system. It is not socialism at all because the people aren't in control. It started as one but not anymore just like China is not a socialist country.

Democratic socialism is the western and modern form of socialism operating under capitalism under a Democratic system.
I don't know where you're getting North Korea from but since you brought it up, NK is a socialist state. They're a unitary one-party socialist republic. Just because they're not the type of socialism you want doesn't mean they're not socialist. They're just as much socialist as a federal multi-party socialist monarchy. Socialism is an extremely broad concept that breaks down into several sub-categories.. not just the one you want.

A lot of you people who shout for socialism don't actually want socialism. What you want is a bigger welfare state. You want higher taxes and more social services provided by a big government.

That's not socialism. That's welfare. UBI is welfare.

Socialism isn't funded via taxation. It's funded via ownership of the means of production.
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Penalty Box
Mar 28, 2017
277 posts
156 upvotes
MayorOfToronto wrote: I don't know where you're getting North Korea from but since you brought it up, NK is a socialist state. They're a unitary one-party socialist republic. Just because they're not the type of socialism you want doesn't mean they're not socialist. They're just as much socialist as a federal multi-party socialist monarchy. Socialism is an extremely broad concept that breaks down into several sub-categories.. not just the one you want.

A lot of you people who shout for socialism don't actually want socialism. What you want is a bigger welfare state. You want higher taxes and more social services provided by a big government.

That's not socialism. That's welfare. UBI is welfare.

Socialism isn't funded via taxation. It's funded via ownership of the means of production.
Claim down bro, you get a Lambo too. We all do, forget savings it's pointless everything is free. No point of learning inflation or any of that bs , no wonder it's not taught in school. Just remember to keep spending the rich corporations need us to keep spending.
Deal Guru
Apr 8, 2013
10205 posts
734 upvotes
MayorOfToronto wrote: I don't know where you're getting North Korea from but since you brought it up, NK is a socialist state. They're a unitary one-party socialist republic. Just because they're not the type of socialism you want doesn't mean they're not socialist. They're just as much socialist as a federal multi-party socialist monarchy. Socialism is an extremely broad concept that breaks down into several sub-categories.. not just the one you want.

A lot of you people who shout for socialism don't actually want socialism. What you want is a bigger welfare state. You want higher taxes and more social services provided by a big government.

That's not socialism. That's welfare. UBI is welfare.

Socialism isn't funded via taxation. It's funded via ownership of the means of production.
NK is not a socialist state. They claim to be one but they aren't.

The wealth acquired by NK doesnt go to the people. It goes to the state. The state is not controlled by the people which can't be possibly socialism because there is no common ownership.

This is explained well by Karl Marx.

NK is pretty much one big private prison using its citizens as slaves. Its actually a capitalist country.
UBI is welfare
Any support by the government can be defined as "welfare". Tax cuts, refunds, EI, Subsidies and etc.

But it is not "welfare" like a social safety net where its targeted. It's a rebate for most Canadians because it is supplemental.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 1, 2013
5672 posts
597 upvotes
kevindurant1 wrote: NK is not a socialist state. They claim to be one but they aren't.

The wealth acquired by NK doesnt go to the people. It goes to the state. The state is not controlled by the people which can't be possibly socialism because there is no common ownership.

This is explained well by Karl Marx.

NK is pretty much one big private prison using its citizens as slaves. Its actually a capitalist country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_North_Korea
The collapse of the Eastern Bloc from 1989 to 1991, particularly North Korea's principal source of support, the Soviet Union, forced the North Korean economy to realign its foreign economic relations, including increased economic exchanges with South Korea. China is North Korea's largest trading partner. North Korea's ideology of Juche has resulted in the country pursuing autarky in an environment of international sanctions. While the current North Korean economy is still dominated by state-owned industry and collective farms, foreign investment and corporate autonomy have slightly increased.


Just to be clear: what you are saying is a country where industry is mostly owned by the government is a "capitalist" country? :rolleyes:
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 13, 2014
4154 posts
1610 upvotes
Parry Sound
kevindurant1 wrote: NK is not a socialist state. They claim to be one but they aren't.

The wealth acquired by NK doesnt go to the people. It goes to the state. The state is not controlled by the people which can't be possibly socialism because there is no common ownership.

This is explained well by Karl Marx.

NK is pretty much one big private prison using its citizens as slaves. Its actually a capitalist country.



Any support by the government can be defined as "welfare". Tax cuts, refunds, EI, Subsidies and etc.

But it is not "welfare" like a social safety net where its targeted. It's a rebate for most Canadians because it is supplemental.

You should read more and type less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_socialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_of_production

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

Literally everything you're saying is either inaccurate or simply untrue. You're speaking based on your own misunderstanding rather than based on facts.

NDP voters tend to have little understanding of politics and economics. Compassion guides them more than knowledge.
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Deal Guru
Apr 8, 2013
10205 posts
734 upvotes
CheapScotch wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_North_Korea



Just to be clear: what you are saying is a country where industry is mostly owned by the government is a "capitalist" country? :rolleyes:
It is owned by a regime. That regime is considered a private entity. The citizens does not control the flow of wealth in NK. What would you call that? Exactly. CAPITALISM.
Deal Guru
Apr 8, 2013
10205 posts
734 upvotes
MayorOfToronto wrote: You should read more and type less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_socialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workplace_democracy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Means_of_production

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income

Literally everything you're saying is either inaccurate or simply untrue. You're speaking based on your own misunderstanding rather than based on facts.

NDP voters tend to have little understanding of politics and economics. Compassion guides them more than knowledge.
I think its you who needs to read more if you are sourcing Wikipedia. Read Karl Marx so you can understand.

No wonder you are confused. Face With Tears Of Joy

Common ownership is the key to define what real socialism really is. Without it, it is not socialism.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 13, 2014
4154 posts
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Parry Sound
kevindurant1 wrote: I think its you who needs to read more if you are sourcing Wikipedia. Read Karl Marx so you can understand.

No wonder you are confused. Face With Tears Of Joy

Common ownership is the key to define what real socialism really is. Without it, it is not socialism.
Lol. Keep voting NDP and living in your idealistic fantasy utopia with your fairy tale made up definitions of basic economic concepts while begging billionaires for handouts and leaning upon your own misunderstandings.

Leave the actual work to the big boys.

Ignorance is bliss.
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Deal Addict
Aug 31, 2017
3949 posts
1917 upvotes
This is why we will remain in a standstill. Rather than trying new things, we just say no. It will not work. UBI will never work, but let's not try it and get actual meaningful data and results. Our system isn't perfect, but it works just fine is the mindset that keeps us behind. We lag too much when we have a highly educated country and vast possibilities. When all the leaders look, think, and act the same, don't expect change anytime soon.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 30, 2010
2886 posts
317 upvotes
MyNameWasTaken wrote: This is why we will remain in a standstill. Rather than trying new things, we just say no. It will not work. UBI will never work, but let's not try it and get actual meaningful data and results. Our system isn't perfect, but it works just fine is the mindset that keeps us behind. We lag too much when we have a highly educated country and vast possibilities. When all the leaders look, think, and act the same, don't expect change anytime soon.
I think it's worth a try. But it definitely would have to replace welfare, OAS and the GIS, since all three are paid out of general revenues (CPP and EI are paid separately from employment, so there's no need to modify those yet, though perhaps the EI contributions would shrink as it would only have to "top up" the UBI to match the 55% of the income from your lost job).

Old Age Security supposedly costs $50 billion a year.
I can't find any figures on what the Guaranteed Income Supplement costs, but I imagine it's a small $b (billions).
Welfare costs the country $69 billion a year.

So we've maybe got 1/4 of the funding for a Universal Basic Income already available. Where do we find the other 300 billion dollars? I think it's worth a serious look.

If the government would stop dragging their heels on oil and gas approvals, then those tax dollars could help fund it. We lost 200 billion dollars worth of work since 2015 due to the pipeline constraints. That's quite a bit of taxes the government decided to forego for ideological purposes.

They also need to get on closing tax loopholes for the uber-rich (cough-Panama Papers-cough), and getting some of those lost taxes.
Penalty Box
Mar 28, 2017
277 posts
156 upvotes
MyNameWasTaken wrote: This is why we will remain in a standstill. Rather than trying new things, we just say no. It will not work. UBI will never work, but let's not try it and get actual meaningful data and results. Our system isn't perfect, but it works just fine is the mindset that keeps us behind. We lag too much when we have a highly educated country and vast possibilities. When all the leaders look, think, and act the same, don't expect change anytime soon.
They have tried it in Sweden. Anyways I think we do need UBI but the thing from my personal experience. People become poor because of poor choices. And it's fine to throw money to everyone because we are losing alot of jobs each year. people need to have at least basics living expenses Hance UBi . But I want to tackle the problem and have basic knowledge of financial understanding in school which I feel they lack. Unlike MR Lambo who thinks we can just keep spending money and it's somehow better. Because that's how the "economy "works . He doesn't understand that poor people make bad choices that screws them in the long run such as overspending and owing credit card interest. Heck look the in the States people trade their food stamps for drugs FML people are ********.
[OP]
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 13, 2014
4154 posts
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Parry Sound
UBI is a temporary bandage solution to a problem much bigger than anything that government handouts could solve.

The roots of our economic and political systems are flawed and corrupt. Throwing money at it won't fix the problem. It will only cover it up temporarily.
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