HBO's White Lotus

Season 1 was marginal. Sorry!

Like, it made it, but barely.

There were some many themes introduced, but no real reflexion or analysis on any of them.

I hope S2 spends more time on each theme.

TheHans wrote: ↑ The story line with the two couples remains the highlight for me so far, with the exception of that one Italian hooker's rendition of "The Best Things in Life Are Free." An ironic choice, considering the environment. And what was with that tinny-sounding piano?

Back to the couples -- episode two convinced me even more that Theo James' Cameron is trying to intimidate Aubrey Plaza's Harper and that she's trying to make nice for her hubby Ethan's sake. That incident in the water was pure intimidation IMO. The way Cameron touched her underwater and came up to the surface so close to her. She looked totally uncomfortable.

I think this also relates to Harper and Ethan's conversation near the end, talking about how Cameron used to "Alpha dog" Ethan, but not now. I think Cameron wants Harper to be attracted to him, as a way of showing Ethan that he's superior still and that he can have anything that Ethan has if he wants it.



The "Peppa Pig" crack was hilarious. She kinda did look like Monica Vitti in a weird way, although she was trying to replicate "La Dolce Vita" I think.

You might be on to something. I think I was wrong about her being attracted to him but it seems to me her husband is not attracted to her - I think they showed that at the end. What do you think about their individual relationships as a couple? Do you think Cameron really loves his wife as much he claims?

As the OP I get notifications when someone posts in this thread and I accidentally clicked on thread without watching 2nd episode and was confused by some of the comments...the peppa pig comment was even more funny having seen the pic Newt posted....that comment was hilarious (even though it's doubtful Italians would know who peppa pig is). Some funny fat jokes at her expense, which I'm surprised is allowed in today's "PC" world. However, Tanya's character is annoying...I forget her husband's name but you can tell he just detests her...I kind feel the same about her lol. She's so self-absorbed and the way she talks...and sucking that noodle...poke a fork in my eye lol. I know her character is meant to be obnoxious.

TBH I'm finding the same thing happening with season 1 - finding everyone annoying, waiting for something to happen and nothing does ....there's a lot of nothing in this show, which oddly I'm still drawn too even if watching these people is either painful or awkward or both lol.

To folks who didn't like season 1 - doubtful you'll like season 2 so probably best to skip it.

hierophant wrote: ↑ You might be on to something. I think I was wrong about her being attracted to him but it seems to me her husband is not attracted to her - I think they showed that at the end. What do you think about their individual relationships as a couple? Do you think Cameron really loves his wife as much he claims?

As the OP I get notifications when someone posts in this thread and I accidentally clicked on thread without watching 2nd episode and was confused by some of the comments...the peppa pig comment was even more funny having seen the pic Newt posted....that comment was hilarious (even though it's doubtful Italians would know who peppa pig is). Some funny fat jokes at her expense, which I'm surprised is allowed in today's "PC" world. However, Tanya's character is annoying...I forget her husband's name but you can tell he just detests her...I kind feel the same about her lol. She's so self-absorbed and the way she talks...and sucking that noodle...poke a fork in my eye lol. I know her character is meant to be obnoxious.

TBH I'm finding the same thing happening with season 1 - finding everyone annoying, waiting for something to happen and nothing does ....there's a lot of nothing in this show, which oddly I'm still drawn too even if watching these people is either painful or awkward or both lol.

To folks who didn't like season 1 - doubtful you'll like season 2 so probably best to skip it.

I thought the "Peppa Pig" comment by Valentina was pretty clever. I don't think it was meant to fat-shame her, but was more about Tanya being all in pink. But mostly about her being one of those "Ugly Americans" -- clueless and obnoxious. Valentina's character seems very sardonic to me, so it fits. A sardonic Sardinian haha.

As for Tanya in general -- I mentioned before that I thought White was using season one as a template, in an effort to duplicate its success. And the two breakout characters were Armond and Tanya IMO. Armond couldn't return, but Tanya could. And I think White made the mistake of turning a sympathetic obnoxious woman (with a great performance from Coolidge) into Tanya on steroids -- an obnoxious woman with no nuance at all.

As for the couples -- I really like the relationship between Harper and Ethan. Their lives have changed dramatically and they're finding their way together. They're very communicative, which is good too. And they've come into a triggering situation, Ethan with Cameron and Harper having to play nicey-nice with the people she doesn't respect. And you have the feeling she rarely just smiles and takes it.

As for Daphne and Cameron -- Daphne doesn't make waves and doesn't overthink her life. She's happy with the status quo, in which she and Cameron have a comfortable life with a couple of kids. She fluffs off his aggressiveness, as it's not directed toward her. I think she sees he's not a nice nor respectful person in many ways, but as long as he's nice to her and the kids, she's fine. And that works for Cameron -- he has a beautiful, kind wife, a couple of (presumably) beautiful kids and he gets to do what he wants as long as he gives her a lot of positive attention.

As for Tanya's assistant, Portia -- why can't she just either eat in her room or find a restaurant far away from the hotel? Why does she always look so surprised when she runs into Tanya and her hubby?

TheHans wrote: ↑ As for Tanya's assistant, Portia -- why can't she just either eat in her room or find a restaurant far away from the hotel? Why does she always look so surprised when she runs into Tanya and her hubby?

This is crystal clear from e1. Portia's life has pretty much sucked. She obviously has not done much travelling, and would obviously really want to experience Italy while visiting Italy. There are tons of restaurants around the resort, so she is basically rolling the dice and hoping for the best. Unfortunately, the hex of Tanya is too powerful. Hence the surprise. And just as she was gaining stride with being away from Tanya (kiss kiss), she'll near certainly now have non stop Tanya the Karen entitlement and neediness to deal with moving forward. Tanya will near certainly be a cockblock for Portia.

TheHans wrote: ↑ I thought the "Peppa Pig" comment by Valentina was pretty clever. I don't think it was meant to fat-shame her, but was more about Tanya being all in pink. But mostly about her being one of those "Ugly Americans" -- clueless and obnoxious. Valentina's character seems very sardonic to me, so it fits. A sardonic Sardinian haha.

Just to clarify, I didn't use the phrase fat shame, but rather fat joke, which IMO is quite a bit different - the former has a negative connotation and the latter doesn't. I didn't mention because it was a bad thing - it was an observation as other comments about her weight have been made this season (e.g., macaroons) so it seems to be part of the storyline. I'm guessing most will be like me and not know about Peppa or her personality and assume the joke is about weight not personality but I could be wrong. Had I not seen Newt's pic- it would have totally gone over my head. Anyways, I think we both might be reading too much into this - we both found it funny so maybe we should leave it at that lol

As for Tanya in general -- I mentioned before that I thought White was using season one as a template, in an effort to duplicate its success. And the two breakout characters were Armond and Tanya IMO. Armond couldn't return, but Tanya could. And I think White made the mistake of turning a sympathetic obnoxious woman (with a great performance from Coolidge) into Tanya on steroids -- an obnoxious woman with no nuance at all.

I'm not sure if it's a mistake or part of the storyline. Maybe he doesn't want us sympathizing with her this season - her character showed how selfish she was in season 1, season 2 is just solidifying that.

I have a different take on Ethan and Harper's relationship but agree with you about Cameron and Daphne.

shikotee wrote: ↑ This is crystal clear from e1. Portia's life has pretty much sucked. She obviously has not done much travelling, and would obviously really want to experience Italy while visiting Italy. There are tons of restaurants around the resort, so she is basically rolling the dice and hoping for the best. Unfortunately, the hex of Tanya is too powerful. Hence the surprise. And just as she was gaining stride with being away from Tanya (kiss kiss), she'll near certainly now have non stop Tanya the Karen entitlement and neediness to deal with moving forward. Tanya will near certainly be a cockblock for Portia.

Totally but Albi seems a bit desperate too lol

shikotee wrote: ↑ This is crystal clear from e1. Portia's life has pretty much sucked. She obviously has not done much travelling, and would obviously really want to experience Italy while visiting Italy. There are tons of restaurants around the resort, so she is basically rolling the dice and hoping for the best. Unfortunately, the hex of Tanya is too powerful. Hence the surprise. And just as she was gaining stride with being away from Tanya (kiss kiss), she'll near certainly now have non stop Tanya the Karen entitlement and neediness to deal with moving forward. Tanya will near certainly be a cockblock for Portia.

I see it as a poorly written subplot meant to be funny. On one hand, she seems by dialogue and action to really not want to get caught. On the other hand, she's constantly putting herself in the position to do that very thing. I agree that she wants to experience Italy, yet she stays close by, even having meals at the hotel. IMO in the case of this plot, you're giving the writer more credit than I am.

hierophant wrote: ↑ I have a different take on Ethan and Harper's relationship but agree with you about Cameron and Daphne.

Before I wrote my other post, I went back and re-watched a scene from episode one. It was the second scene of them in their room together. She was asking about Cameron and Ethan talked about how they were roommates. What I saw in that scene was a wife protecting her husband and confused about why they're dealing with Cameron in the first place. Like all she's ever heard are bad things, now suddenly they're all their together and she's confused. And she doesn't want to see him get hurt. I think that's what gave me the good opinion of their marriage.

BTW, I agree with what you said, that if a person didn't like season one, they may not like this. Is it too soon to speculate about who Daphne saw floating in the water?

TheHans wrote: ↑ I see it as a poorly written subplot meant to be funny. On one hand, she seems by dialogue and action to really not want to get caught. On the other hand, she's constantly putting herself in the position to do that very thing. I agree that she wants to experience Italy, yet she stays close by, even having meals at the hotel. IMO in the case of this plot, you're giving the writer more credit than I am.

It is funny. The joke is, it is impossible to escape Tanya.
The raping gods of antiquity, and the fates who serve them, are cruel.
Just because you don't like something, or can't appreciate the humour, doesn't actually mean it is poorly written (a polarized and over used criticism in modern times). Do I really need to explain to you that it is ridiculous to deliver an edict on the writing after two episodes? We'll have a better idea when the season is complete, whether the steps taken were worth the effort.

As a side note - are you familiar with "comedia dell arte" (a form of theatre originating from Italy)?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commedia_dell%27arte

My feel is they are dipping into this sort of exaggeration with Tanya.
Looking at her through a realist lens is missing the point.

shikotee wrote: ↑ It is funny. The joke is, it is impossible to escape Tanya.
The raping gods of antiquity, and the fates who serve them, are cruel.
Just because you don't like something, or can't appreciate the humour, doesn't actually mean it is poorly written (a polarized and over used criticism in modern times). Do I really need to explain to you that it is ridiculous to deliver an edict on the writing after two episodes? We'll have a better idea when the season is complete, whether the steps taken were worth the effort.

LOL, just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm incorrect. Yes, I know what Commedia dell’arte is. Since neither of us is Mike White, either of us could be correct. Since that's the case, it's unnecessary to refer to a particular opinion of mine as "ridiculous." And no, I don't need you to mansplain anything to me.

TheHans wrote: ↑ LOL, just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm incorrect. And yes, I know what Commedia dell’arte is. I'd just say that since neither of us is Mike White, either of us could be correct. And since that's the case, it's unnecessary to refer to a particular opinion of mine as "ridiculous."

But it is ridiculous, given how much of the puzzle is still missing.
I'm not saying you need to like or love it - you simply have not justified your "weak writing" claim, as it isn't actually reasonably possible to do so at this stage of the game. To be clear, in case it needs to be said, I am not trying to tell you this is strong writing. You can feel whatever you wish - the point I'm making is you have not, thus far, substantiated your weak writing claim.

I do not like this (does not equal) this is poorly written.

TheHans wrote: ↑ Before I wrote my other post, I went back and re-watched a scene from episode one. It was the second scene of them in their room together. She was asking about Cameron and Ethan talked about how they were roommates. What I saw in that scene was a wife protecting her husband and confused about why they're dealing with Cameron in the first place. Like all she's ever heard are bad things, now suddenly they're all their together and she's confused. And she doesn't want to see him get hurt. I think that's what gave me the good opinion of their marriage.

BTW, I agree with what you said, that if a person didn't like season one, they may not like this. Is it too soon to speculate about who Daphne saw floating in the water?

Definitely not. Who do you think? I haven't formulated any guesses yet but there are multiple dead bodies and we only know the sex of the one Daphne saw (or at least I think I saw).

I agree with you that Harper is protective (I would use the word defensive) but not necessarily out of love for Ethan but b/c she's competitive...the lawyer in her. There have been many cues that they're not a close couple (they don't have sex not even on vacation ...I found it odd that when Harper came into the room he didn't want to have sex or that evening) - forcing him to get fish, spending all her time obsessing over Cameron and Daphne. But I agree with you that she doesn't want to see him get hurt.

hierophant wrote: ↑ Definitely not. Who do you think? I haven't formulated any guesses yet but there are multiple dead bodies and we only know the sex of the one Daphne saw (or at least I think I saw).

When I went back to episode one like I mentioned earlier, I also watched the start again. Daphne's response when she saw the body in the water was sheer panic. And so I was thinking maybe Cameron? Maybe just wishful thinking LOL. But the multiple dead body thing got me thinking about Michael Imperioli and his lady friends, who appear to like hanging out in the water together. I was wondering if that was a hint and it's the three of them.

TheHans wrote: ↑ When I went back to episode one like I mentioned earlier, I also watched the start again. Daphne's response when she saw the body in the water was sheer panic. And so I was thinking maybe Cameron? Maybe just wishful thinking LOL. But the multiple dead body thing got me thinking about Michael Imperioli and his lady friends, who appear to like hanging out in the water together. I was wondering if that was a hint and it's the three of them.

I think you are right about the 2 couples. Cam and Daphne are initially portrayed as the fun loving couple but after not getting her way Daphne childishly acts out and Cam takes full advantage - now we see what their marriage is really like. Cam is a sleezeball...I think Daphne has blinders on when she says Cam's friends are psychos and dark but he's not, right lol. We now also know the real reason Cam invited them on this vacation. I see Harper's protective side but I'm wondering if Ethan is gay...he doesn't touch his wife...odd. What was that scene all about with all the men surrounding Harper?

The rest of the storylines are zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Portia is the most annoying character IMO - even Nona is more tolerable. Why the hell would she say "byeeee" knowing that Tanya is going to ask her to stay - what a self-pitying, victim-playing twit lol.

I also think that the guy paying attention to Tanya is paid by Greg so she'll cheat on him while he's "gone". Anyone speak Italian and explain what the fortune teller was saying at the end? I thought I heard the word sucio which is dirty in Spanish so I'm guessing she was saying he's a dirty guy?

As for the dead bodies...hard to say after this episode.

hierophant wrote: ↑
I also think that the guy paying attention to Tanya is paid by Greg so she'll cheat on him while he's "gone". Anyone speak Italian and explain what the fortune teller was saying at the end? I thought I heard the word sucio which is dirty in Spanish so I'm guessing she was saying he's a dirty guy?

She was saying, "The madness with lead you to commit suicide." She went on about the truth and how the Fool (the Tarot card) is dangerous.

"They used to respect the old. Now we're just reminders of an offensive past everyone wants to forget."
Bert Di Grasso

It's funny cause it's true.

As for men around Harper - Seemed to me like an exaggeration of the stereotype of the creepy hyper sexuality of Italian men.

hierophant wrote: ↑ What was that scene all about with all the men surrounding Harper?

Turns out, it was an homage.

https://uproxx.com/tv/white-lotus-lavventura-homage/

Third season ordered

https://deadline.com/2022/11/the-white- ... 235175893/

I enjoyed tonight's episode and I'm looking forward to seeing how this season ends.

Based on episode one, a 'few guests' that died - so I'm going to take that to mean no locals or staff. The body in water looked like a white male so based on that it could be anyone from this list: Greg, son, father, grandfather...I'm not sure if the nephew or the gay men are considered guests b/c one or more of them li. I'm not convinced it's Cam because I think Daphne's response would be different. From that I'm narrowing it down to Greg or the trio for now.

I'm not sure I can explain why, but I like the intro music.
I think I appreciate that parts are also used in show to generate mystique/suspense.

The least interesting subplot is the infatuation the hotel manager has with one of her employees.
It just feels like a tangential string.

Something seems very fishy with the gay men.
Definitely suspicious that they are running some sort of planned scam on a very wealthy and vulnerable woman.

hierophant wrote: ↑ I enjoyed tonight's episode and I'm looking forward to seeing how this season ends.

Based on episode one, a 'few guests' that died - so I'm going to take that to mean no locals or staff. The body in water looked like a white male so based on that it could be anyone from this list: Greg, son, father, grandfather...I'm not sure if the nephew or the gay men are considered guests b/c one or more of them li. I'm not convinced it's Cam because I think Daphne's response would be different. From that I'm narrowing it down to Greg or the trio for now.

I'm still sticking with Cameron for now. Maybe there's an accident stemming from Harper finding that wrapper, which Ethan will presumably know about the next time he goes to the bathroom.